FB: American Southwest Conference

[Ron Boerger]

How did the Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association operate differently from the ASC? Were there differing politics involved? Why was a new conference formed in '96 in the first place? Why couldn't everyone stay in the same conference under the same name?

The TIAA became the ASC:  https://ascsports.org/sports/2007/8/15/TIAA.aspx

Schools join or leave conferences for whatever reason, they want to find the 'best fit' which can mean any number of things.  Sometimes schools change affiliation (some of the schools that joined came to D3 from NAIA, just like some that are leaving are going from D3 to D2), sometimes they want to be more competitive, sometimes they think joining another conference adds prestige, sometimes they just want to be sure they have a conference that is going to survive.

[cruman32]

  The CRU do not play UWRF or Trinity this year. Those were only 1 year deals.

[Ron Boerger]

Tweet from Bob Quillman:

The ASC has offered a number of schools entry into the league - some D3 (C2C), some NAIA.

Priority #1 for current ASC members is to keep the league alive. But each is also exploring contingency plans - options include D3, D2, and even D1 (UMHB).

Stay tuned.

[CruFrenzy]

The CRU do not play UWRF or Trinity this year. Those were only 1 year deals.

Oh, wow! Okay. Even more bizarre that coach Harmon had us travel to two top 25 teams with no return trip guaranteed this year.

With that being said it does potentially make this year's schedule much less difficult. I'm very interested to see who fills the (now) three empty non con spots. Crazy times!

Thanks for the info Cruman32

[Mavchamp]

Tweet from Bob Quillman:

The ASC has offered a number of schools entry into the league - some D3 (C2C), some NAIA.

Priority #1 for current ASC members is to keep the league alive. But each is also exploring contingency plans - options include D3, D2, and even D1 (UMHB).

Stay tuned.

I think it would be great if we could get some regional NAIA teams to come over to the ASC... (Wayland, SAGU, Texas Wesleyan).  But I have a hard time believing too many schools will be thrilled about leaving a stable conference to a completely unstable conference.  Not to mention they are signing up to face juggernauts HSU and UMHB where making the playoffs plummet to almost zero compared to the SAC.  That's a hard sell.  Especially when Louisiana Christian just left...and have had immediate success in their new conference.

The bigger questions is....would ETBU and/or Howard Payne have any interest in joining the SAC.  Obviously there's a loss of NCAA "prestige" and product recognition going to the NAIA...but at least it provides some stability until something else in conference alignment comes along.  Build some of those regional rivalries.  Not really appealing....but it's survival time.

HSU and UMHB might not be immediate playoff contenders in D2...but they are closer than HPU and ETBU (both would be among the smallest D2 schools in the nation).  LSC is loaded with schools significatly bigger than all the current ASC schools.  Could be ugly.  But it makes some great matchups geographically.  Which ironically.... ETBU makes more sense for D2 Great American Conference where most of the schools are in Arkansas....but all much closer than LSC schools.  GAC may have no interest in expanding to Texas.  Although GAC enrollments are mmuch closer to ASC enrollments than the LSC is.

And no one is shocked that the SCAC has no interest in UMHB and HSU.... let's call a spade and spade... they are all running away.  But their reluctance of HPU and ETBU is odd unless it's more of a ideological/political move than an athletic move. 

SAA seems a long shot....but maybe they are open to the idea with the possible loss of BSC.

And who in the C2C is appealing?  Virginia?  New York?  Wisconsin? Maryland?  California?  YIKES. 

[Ron Boerger]

The SAA (which split from the SCAC for reasons including travel economics/demands on athletes, and academics) just took on Trinity and Southwestern starting in 2025.  I can't see them being interested in anyone that's left in the ASC due to one or both reasons.

It's hard to see the NAIA schools suddenly being interested in changing their affiliation to D3, which could require some to sponsor additional sports.  Schools with an enrollment <= 1,000 must sponsor five men's and five women's sports; those with larger enrollments must sponsor six each.  Maybe all the schools already support that many, I don't follow NAIA closely. 

And C2C ... what's in it for C2C schools which already have their cake and eat it too, with the freedom to play whomever's around them until their championships and not have to travel like they would if they joined the ASC?   Unless they became the "ASC America Division" with the same freedoms they have now, but you would still have to figure a way to get a couple football schools to come into the picture. 

Bob has solid contacts, but other people who have insight into the ASC haven't reported anything along these lines, so I guess we just have to wait and see how wrong I am. 

[Etchglow]

The SAA (which split from the SCAC for reasons including travel economics/demands on athletes, and academics) just took on Trinity and Southwestern starting in 2025.  I can't see them being interested in anyone that's left in the ASC due to one or both reasons.

It's hard to see the NAIA schools suddenly being interested in changing their affiliation to D3, which could require some to sponsor additional sports.  Schools with an enrollment <= 1,000 must sponsor five men's and five women's sports; those with larger enrollments must sponsor six each.  Maybe all the schools already support that many, I don't follow NAIA closely. 

And C2C ... what's in it for C2C schools which already have their cake and eat it too, with the freedom to play whomever's around them until their championships and not have to travel like they would if they joined the ASC?   Unless they became the "ASC America Division" with the same freedoms they have now, but you would still have to figure a way to get a couple football schools to come into the picture. 

Bob has solid contacts, but other people who have insight into the ASC haven't reported anything along these lines, so I guess we just have to wait and see how wrong I am. 

Just looking at the Texas Sooner Athletic Conference schools that have football,

Wayland Baptist - 8 men's and 8 women's sports
Texas Wesleyan - 9 men's and 10 women's sports
SAGU - 6 men's and 6 women's sports

I doubt Louisiana Coll... I mean Christian would want to come back and Wayland has been the bottom of the conference lately so not sure why they'd go from the bottom there to the bottom in the ASC honestly...  I don't really see the ASC getting multiple teams to jump though.  Interesting times...

[Crubacker]

Not a lot of chatter out there about UMHB schedule.  Other than hearing there is another 2 yr deal with UWW, that is it for Non-con games?

[Ron Boerger]

Not a lot of chatter out there about UMHB schedule.  Other than hearing there is another 2 yr deal with UWW, that is it for Non-con games?

There has to be more than that. 

HSU announced their schedule: non-conference opponents are Curry (away), North American University (NAIA; home), Endicott (home), McMurry ("away").

[Etchglow]

UMHB no longer has the DC position listed. Kind of wonder who got hired.

[Riley Zayas]

UMHB no longer has the DC position listed. Kind of wonder who got hired.

Nothing official from UMHB yet, but sources tell Cory Hogue of DCTF that it will be a
co-defensive coordinator situation next season. Mark Carey moves up to co-DC and will coach LBs. Jordan Collins, from ETBU, is set to take over the D-Line in addition to serving as co-DC.

Link: https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2024/03/01/sources-mary-hardin-baylor-to-split-defensive-coordinator-duties?ref=article_preview_title

[Etchglow]

UMHB no longer has the DC position listed. Kind of wonder who got hired.

Nothing official from UMHB yet, but sources tell Cory Hogue of DCTF that it will be a
co-defensive coordinator situation next season. Mark Carey moves up to co-DC and will coach LBs. Jordan Collins, from ETBU, is set to take over the D-Line in addition to serving as co-DC.

Link: https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2024/03/01/sources-mary-hardin-baylor-to-split-defensive-coordinator-duties?ref=article_preview_title

Interesting, wonder who takes over special teams then? 

[Ralph Turner]

How did the Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association operate differently from the ASC? Were there differing politics involved? Why was a new conference formed in '96 in the first place? Why couldn't everyone stay in the same conference under the same name?

I have not stirred those memories in a long time.

Founding members were Howard Payne University, Austin College, Hardin–Simmons University, McMurry University, Mississippi College, Sul Ross State University, the University of Dallas and the University of the Ozarks. Only 6 schools played football.

The first commissioner was a very powerful influential man. He came from the old Southwest Conference after that conference fell apart. (Arkansas to the SEC and then A&M, UT, Baylor and Tech to the Big XII.) He was chosen to move the schools from NAIA to D-3.

Mississippi College moved from D-2 to D-3. They had had to "vacate" a season about 1994. I do not recall the reasons.

A new president hired at McMurry in 1994. Dr Robert Shimp was a strong advocate for a "strong, vibrant, very championship oriented' McMurry athletic program.

The ASC sought new D-3 programs, colleges willing to leave their current athletic alignment and join within the next 5-6 years

Concordia TX
ETBU
LeTourneau
Louisiana College
Texas Lutheran
Schreiner
UMHB.

.. and some to add football as an attractor for new students: ETBU, LaCollege, TLU and UMHB.

Wikipeida has a pretty good chronology of the ASC.

[Ralph Turner]

The TIAA was only AC, HSU, HPU McMurry and SRSU and competed in the NAIA.

[cruman32]

  Don't know the exact dates but the first 4 games are:
1.  Bethel College-Mickenzie Tennessee- NAIA-Quarter finalist 2023-There
2.  Westgate Christian Univ.-Houston, Tx,-NAIA-Here
3.  Whitewater- There
4.  John Melvin- Crowley La.-NAIA-Here