FB: American Southwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

It's at least partly the conference doing the "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" approach while it bled teams.  The last school to join was Belhaven, nearly ten years ago.  Before that, if you exclude McMurry's return after dallying with D2, it was Centenary who joined in '11 and turned around and left the very next year. 

The ASC lost a few schools in the early-mid teens, but the exodus snowballed during and immediately after the pandemic. 

I like the comment about growth, but whom would the ASC have wanted to join the ASC after the departure of TLU and Schreiner?

I don't think that "football domination" is the real reason. I think that it is a "mission/vision" issue that no one has mentioned.

[QB11111]

It's at least partly the conference doing the "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" approach while it bled teams.  The last school to join was Belhaven, nearly ten years ago.  Before that, if you exclude McMurry's return after dallying with D2, it was Centenary who joined in '11 and turned around and left the very next year. 

The ASC lost a few schools in the early-mid teens, but the exodus snowballed during and immediately after the pandemic. 

I like the comment about growth, but whom would the ASC have wanted to join the ASC after the departure of TLU and Schreiner?

I don't think that "football domination" is the real reason. I think that it is a "mission/vision" issue that no one has mentioned.

I agree with this, TLU & Southwestern (now in the SAA)  don't care how competitive or not competitive their programs are, they are happy to just have programs.

[TLU02SA]

It's at least partly the conference doing the "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" approach while it bled teams.  The last school to join was Belhaven, nearly ten years ago.  Before that, if you exclude McMurry's return after dallying with D2, it was Centenary who joined in '11 and turned around and left the very next year. 

The ASC lost a few schools in the early-mid teens, but the exodus snowballed during and immediately after the pandemic. 

I like the comment about growth, but whom would the ASC have wanted to join the ASC after the departure of TLU and Schreiner?

I don't think that "football domination" is the real reason. I think that it is a "mission/vision" issue that no one has mentioned.

I agree with this, TLU & Southwestern (now in the SAA)  don't care how competitive or not competitive their programs are, they are happy to just have programs.

I can't speak for Southwestern but I don't agree that TLU doesn't care how competitive their programs are. TLU wants their teams to be competitive and changes are made when a program becomes the "door mat". TLU's softball team has been one of the most successful DIII softball programs for more than 10 years.  TLU's baseball team regularly makes the DIII playoffs (they even appeared in the National Championship series several years ago). TLU's track and field is nationally competitive. The basketball teams, volleyball team, and men's soccer team have won conference championships (either regular season or conference tournaments) within the past 10 years.

Football has not had much success the last 5 or 6 seasons but the school is trying to make improvements so that the team will be more competitive. TLU does care.  Maybe not to the extent that other DIII programs do (like Trinity) but TLU wants their teams to be competitive within their conference and nationally.

[Ron Boerger]

Yeah, I'd agree with TLU02SA.  Whereas Southwestern has let most of their programs go (exceptions, women's soccer and tennis, but perhaps one person named Mary Cardone had something to do with that as both have retreated after her graduation), TLU has been consistently competitive in a number of sports besides their national championship-winning softball program.

SW's football program is a total disaster.  TLU will be competitive once the SCAC gets their schiesse together. 

[justafan12]

It's at least partly the conference doing the "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" approach while it bled teams.  The last school to join was Belhaven, nearly ten years ago.  Before that, if you exclude McMurry's return after dallying with D2, it was Centenary who joined in '11 and turned around and left the very next year. 

The ASC lost a few schools in the early-mid teens, but the exodus snowballed during and immediately after the pandemic. 

I like the comment about growth, but whom would the ASC have wanted to join the ASC after the departure of TLU and Schreiner?

I don't think that "football domination" is the real reason. I think that it is a "mission/vision" issue that no one has mentioned.

I agree with this, TLU & Southwestern (now in the SAA)  don't care how competitive or not competitive their programs are, they are happy to just have programs.

I can't speak for Southwestern but I don't agree that TLU doesn't care how competitive their programs are. TLU wants their teams to be competitive and changes are made when a program becomes the "door mat". TLU's softball team has been one of the most successful DIII softball programs for more than 10 years.  TLU's baseball team regularly makes the DIII playoffs (they even appeared in the National Championship series several years ago). TLU's track and field is nationally competitive. The basketball teams, volleyball team, and men's soccer team have won conference championships (either regular season or conference tournaments) within the past 10 years.

Football has not had much success the last 5 or 6 seasons but the school is trying to make improvements so that the team will be more competitive. TLU does care.  Maybe not to the extent that other DIII programs do (like Trinity) but TLU wants their teams to be competitive within their conference and nationally.

TLU softball has only be a successful softball since they left the ASC.  In 13 years of ASC membership they only played in the conference tournament 3 times (04,05,13). 

[QB11111]

Yeah, I'd agree with TLU02SA.  Whereas Southwestern has let most of their programs go (exceptions, women's soccer and tennis, but perhaps one person named Mary Cardone had something to do with that as both have retreated after her graduation), TLU has been consistently competitive in a number of sports besides their national championship-winning softball program.

SW's football program is a total disaster.  TLU will be competitive once the SCAC gets their schiesse together. 

I hope TLU football has some great years ahead.
I wonder how long SW will let the current HC be at the wheel with how bad they have been.

[TLU02SA]

TLU softball has only be a successful softball since they left the ASC.  In 13 years of ASC membership they only played in the conference tournament 3 times (04,05,13). 

I don't understand this comment. TLU's move to the ASC did not change the fortunes of their softball team.  It was hiring Wade Wilson as the Head Coach.  TLU Softball's success is not limited to winning their conference either. They were National Champions in 2019, National Runner Up in 2021 and made the DIII Women's College World Series in 2022.  Several years from 2014 - 2023, the softball team has advanced to the super-regional rounds. 

I guess your suggestion is that TLU has only been successful because they left the ASC. I disagree.

[Kuiper]

This is from a guy who writes a D3 women's volleyball blog that is focused on the west, but since he should be as interested in what is going to happen to the ASC as anyone else (and since he specifically asks for football people to pipe up if they have any views on this), I figured I would repost it here:

https://d3vbwest.wordpress.com/2024/05/03/may-musings/

Well, I guess I got the C2C/ASC "merger" by May wrong. I don't like being wrong. Everything is really quiet. Like spooky quiet. If I had to bet now, then I'd bet against it happening. It only makes sense to me if the Baptist Four get really scared and determine they have no other option and do something else with their football programs. And typing that really doesn't make any sense. There are schools that have the majority of their spots in one NCAA division and one or two in another. Colorado College is a great example of that (men's hockey and women's soccer play at the DI level). Could that even happen (not saying at the DI level mind you)? Sort of a rhetorical question but I know there are a number of football experts out there that may want to comment on it.

[CNU85]

Kuiper. I'm glad you posted. I was not aware of your blog about volleyball. I will dig into it a little more. I did read your latest about the C2C and came across, "So, honey, for that Labor Day Weekend how would you like to take connecting flights to beautiful Newport News, Virginia?" Yeah, I'm going to have to work on that wording to have any chance."

So let me help you out!!! HAHA!

Newport News is comfortably positioned between Va Beach and Richmond, each being about 45-60 minutes away. Only 20 minutes away is Historic Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens theme park with a European theme. Since you are on the east coast, DC is about a 3-4 hour drive, depending on traffic.

Newport News is where we build nuclear powered aircraft carriers. We have one of the largest municipal parks in the country. There is a lot to do on the water, if that interests you.

CNU is a beautiful campus and you would enjoy that as well. Within a mile of campus is the Mariner's Museum which has interesting artifacts including the turret of the USS Monitor. Also, the Virginia Living Museum is within a mile or 2 from campus.

Also on campus is the Ferguson Center for the Arts. Truly an amazing venue. They are currently filling their schedule for the next year. Perhaps there will be a show that weekend.

VA Living Museum

Ferguson Center

Mariners Museum

Busch Gardens

Colonial Williamsburg

If you still can't convince someone to come for a holiday weekend, at least I tried!!

If you do decide to head this way, send me a PM and I can let you know where to stay and also give advice on where not to stay/go.

Cheers!

[Kuiper]

Kuiper. I'm glad you posted. I was not aware of your blog about volleyball. I will dig into it a little more. I did read your latest about the C2C and came across, "So, honey, for that Labor Day Weekend how would you like to take connecting flights to beautiful Newport News, Virginia?" Yeah, I'm going to have to work on that wording to have any chance."

So let me help you out!!! HAHA!

Newport News is comfortably positioned between Va Beach and Richmond, each being about 45-60 minutes away. Only 20 minutes away is Historic Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens theme park with a European theme. Since you are on the east coast, DC is about a 3-4 hour drive, depending on traffic.

Newport News is where we build nuclear powered aircraft carriers. We have one of the largest municipal parks in the country. There is a lot to do on the water, if that interests you.

CNU is a beautiful campus and you would enjoy that as well. Within a mile of campus is the Mariner's Museum which has interesting artifacts including the turret of the USS Monitor. Also, the Virginia Living Museum is within a mile or 2 from campus.

Also on campus is the Ferguson Center for the Arts. Truly an amazing venue. They are currently filling their schedule for the next year. Perhaps there will be a show that weekend.

VA Living Museum

Ferguson Center

Mariners Museum

Busch Gardens

Colonial Williamsburg

If you still can't convince someone to come for a holiday weekend, at least I tried!!

If you do decide to head this way, send me a PM and I can let you know where to stay and also give advice on where not to stay/go.

Cheers!

Sounds like a great area of the country, but, just to be clear, I'm not the author of that blog.  I just reposted an excerpt from it.  I'm a soccer guy from out West and found this guy's volleyball blog (and have followed the football board's ASC thread) because of my interest in trying to figure out what's happening with the ASC.

The problem for the ASC is partly that the C2C has no football since it wouldn't really work in the conference tournament format they use exclusively for "conference games."  This year's C2C men's soccer tournament is at Mary Washington, which I'm sure is another lovely destination!

By the way, the last I read from someone plugged into the basketball side is that the holdup was that the ASC remaining 4 wanted the C2C to merge into the ASC, keeping the ASC name, and effectively or actually move the locus of power to Texas.  I'm sure that didn't go over well with Christopher Newport and the other C2C members.

[CNU85]

It definitely wouldn't work for football. The travel costs are extreme to send entire football teams on charter flights. Not to mention if by a miracle there is football in a C2C/ASC scenario, there would only be the minimum 6 teams for an AQ. All it takes is one school to leave (which I would think would be highly likely) and then 5 teams are either back to the beginning or as would be the case for SU and CNU, in a far worse situation. And even with 6 teams, you still have to find 5 non conference games. That's difficult!

Conference tournaments are tough enough as they are now. Some conference tournaments are at UC-Santa Cruz. To be fair, tournaments have to move around. Thus, every school has an increased travel burden should they choose to participate in conference post season play. It's not an ideal conference. But if there was an easy solution, it would already be in place.

[jknezek]

The writer of the blog may know a lot about Volleyball, I have no idea since I know nothing about Volleyball, but I'm not sure how much they know about the NCAA and DIII. Bringing up the possibility of teams in two different NCAA levels shows the writer is missing some vital information. That simply isn't allowed unless you were grandfathered in 25+ years ago. I highly doubt the NCAA is going to make an exception now, especially in a high profile sport like football.

[Pat Coleman]

Yes, and one could never "play up" in football or basketball.

[Mavchamp]

By the way, the last I read from someone plugged into the basketball side is that the holdup was that the ASC remaining 4 wanted the C2C to merge into the ASC, keeping the ASC name, and effectively or actually move the locus of power to Texas.  I'm sure that didn't go over well with Christopher Newport and the other C2C members.

IF this is true.... then the leadership at the ASC is even worse than I fathomed it to be.  The ASC has ZERO leverage for ANY sort of demands.  The audacity of the suggestion is mind-boggling.

The walls are closing in.  No one wants to join the ASC.  No wants to accept what's left.

So you make demands???  Really? 

Just dissolve the dang thing and end this charade.  What a JOKE.

[Kuiper]

By the way, the last I read from someone plugged into the basketball side is that the holdup was that the ASC remaining 4 wanted the C2C to merge into the ASC, keeping the ASC name, and effectively or actually move the locus of power to Texas.  I'm sure that didn't go over well with Christopher Newport and the other C2C members.

IF this is true.... then the leadership at the ASC is even worse than I fathomed it to be.  The ASC has ZERO leverage for ANY sort of demands.  The audacity of the suggestion is mind-boggling.

The walls are closing in.  No one wants to join the ASC.  No wants to accept what's left.

So you make demands???  Really? 

Just dissolve the dang thing and end this charade.  What a JOKE.

I checked and it wasn't a basketball source, but a poster on the Soccer Board that also posts here - @Ron Boerger

As I hear it, the sticking point in making the move is that the ASC wants to merge with the C2C but have the combined conference called the ASC, which would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.