FB: American Southwest Conference

[Ron Boerger]

There are many other sports besides football (which is all the C2C would be concerned with), and plenty of games between the SCAC and ASC in those and I would fully expect that to continue.

[Mavchamp]

Is the Sooner Athletic Conference something any of the Baptist Four should seriously consider?

Would the SAC even be interested?

SAC Football Programs:
Lousiana Christian
Texas Wesleyan
Langston
Ok Panhandle State
Southwestern Assembly
Arkansas Baptist
Wayland Baptist
Texas College
Ottowa- Arizona

9 teams in football.  Looks like they have 12 in for men's/Ladies basketball.  10 for soccer.  10 for softball.  9 for baseball. 

I know the NCAA has more name recognition than the NAIA.  But do most casual fans know any more about NCAA D3 than the NAIA?  My guess is no.  Most fans couldn't name the 2023 football champs of either.  Same for all the other sports.

So if travel makes sense and competitiveness makes sense and the possibility of close geographical rivalries makes sense..... why not?

The longer this lingers....the longer the ASC is silent....and the general attitude of the SCAC,SAA, and D2 folks sure is making the SAC sound appealing.

[jknezek]

That conference has been kicked around quite a bit as a likely landing spot. Like others, I'm a bit baffled about the complete lack of response from the conference office. I suspect it's because they have nothing to say. There just aren't too many options, and there are even fewer options where the people in that office are going to keep the lights on and their jobs.

[CNU85]

The difficulty for the ASC 4 in joining the C2C would be trying to put together enough regular-season games to fill out a schedule.  Sure, they can play each other twice, but do the SCAC schools have enough non-conference slots (and desire) to make up the rest?  So even if they don't have to travel for C2C regular season games, the ASC 4 likely have to travel more just to get games in.  Already hard enough to get teams into Texas as it is for the limited number of non-conference games that exist, don't see a lot of schools being excited/able to do it once their conference play starts.

It will be a logistical nightmare.  The other C2c schools have a lot more possibilities to work with (except UC-SC).

It can be a nightmare for sure. If you look at the basketball schedules for both basketball teams at CNU, you will see a huge dip in games played once conference play starts for nearby conferences. The schedules are front loaded and involve quite a few tournaments until Jan 1. Then things slow down. Other sports have similar issues with scheduling.

[BSCpanthers]

Is the Sooner Athletic Conference something any of the Baptist Four should seriously consider?

Would the SAC even be interested?

SAC Football Programs:
Lousiana Christian
Texas Wesleyan
Langston
Ok Panhandle State
Southwestern Assembly
Arkansas Baptist
Wayland Baptist
Texas College
Ottowa- Arizona

9 teams in football.  Looks like they have 12 in for men's/Ladies basketball.  10 for soccer.  10 for softball.  9 for baseball. 

I know the NCAA has more name recognition than the NAIA.  But do most casual fans know any more about NCAA D3 than the NAIA?  My guess is no.  Most fans couldn't name the 2023 football champs of either.  Same for all the other sports.

So if travel makes sense and competitiveness makes sense and the possibility of close geographical rivalries makes sense..... why not?

The longer this lingers....the longer the ASC is silent....and the general attitude of the SCAC,SAA, and D2 folks sure is making the SAC sound appealing.

Arkansas Baptist are NAIA, and they are very underfunded. 

[TheChucker]

Is the Sooner Athletic Conference something any of the Baptist Four should seriously consider?

Would the SAC even be interested?

SAC Football Programs:
Lousiana Christian
Texas Wesleyan
Langston
Ok Panhandle State
Southwestern Assembly
Arkansas Baptist
Wayland Baptist
Texas College
Ottowa- Arizona

9 teams in football.  Looks like they have 12 in for men's/Ladies basketball.  10 for soccer.  10 for softball.  9 for baseball. 

I know the NCAA has more name recognition than the NAIA.  But do most casual fans know any more about NCAA D3 than the NAIA?  My guess is no.  Most fans couldn't name the 2023 football champs of either.  Same for all the other sports.

So if travel makes sense and competitiveness makes sense and the possibility of close geographical rivalries makes sense..... why not?

The longer this lingers....the longer the ASC is silent....and the general attitude of the SCAC,SAA, and D2 folks sure is making the SAC sound appealing.

Regarding the D2 comment, Howard Payne would be an outlier with its very small size but ETBU, HSU and UMHB are squarely in the "normal" size of D2 schools nationally. Per the EADA, undergrad enrollment for D2 schools with football have a 25th/50th/75th percentile range of 1,222/1,986/3,958. The tuition implications from larger D3 roster sizes to D2 might be a bigger hurdle.

[Mavchamp]

Is the Sooner Athletic Conference something any of the Baptist Four should seriously consider?

Would the SAC even be interested?

SAC Football Programs:
Lousiana Christian
Texas Wesleyan
Langston
Ok Panhandle State
Southwestern Assembly
Arkansas Baptist
Wayland Baptist
Texas College
Ottowa- Arizona

9 teams in football.  Looks like they have 12 in for men's/Ladies basketball.  10 for soccer.  10 for softball.  9 for baseball. 

I know the NCAA has more name recognition than the NAIA.  But do most casual fans know any more about NCAA D3 than the NAIA?  My guess is no.  Most fans couldn't name the 2023 football champs of either.  Same for all the other sports.

So if travel makes sense and competitiveness makes sense and the possibility of close geographical rivalries makes sense..... why not?

The longer this lingers....the longer the ASC is silent....and the general attitude of the SCAC,SAA, and D2 folks sure is making the SAC sound appealing.

Regarding the D2 comment, Howard Payne would be an outlier with its very small size but ETBU, HSU and UMHB are squarely in the "normal" size of D2 schools nationally. Per the EADA, undergrad enrollment for D2 schools with football have a 25th/50th/75th percentile range of 1,222/1,986/3,958. The tuition implications from larger D3 roster sizes to D2 might be a bigger hurdle.

ETBU's smaller enrollment isn't as bothersome in the Great American Conference as most of their membership is in the 3-4K range.  But in the LSC it's significantly larger....seems to be more in the 8K range.

I have a hard time believing a school of 2000 can consistently compete against schools 4-5 times larger than them.  Not to mention they are recruiting against much larger metro areas.  Most LSC schools are located in cites of 100,000 or more.  Most of the GAC is located in towns arnound 30K or smaller...which is excatly where ETBU sits..in a town of 25,000.

If the GAC isn't interested in adding ETBU..... one has to think that maybe the Sooner Conference is a better choice than the LSC from a competitive view. 

[CruFrenzy]

UMHB isn't going to go NAIA.

[Ralph Turner]

Wasn't UMHB D2 before joining the ASC and adding football?

[Inkblot]

Wasn't UMHB D2 before joining the ASC and adding football?

They started the D2 membership process but switched to the D3 process after about a year.

[Ron Boerger]

Prior to joining the NCAA, UMHB was a member of the NAIA's Heart of Texas conference, which disbanded in 2000 after all its members left the NAIA for either D2 or D3 (latter fact courtesy St. Mary's (TX) history page). 

Prior to that, they were in the Big State Conference, which was also NAIA.

[TheChucker]

Prior to joining the NCAA, UMHB was a member of the NAIA's Heart of Texas conference, which disbanded in 2000 after all its members left the NAIA for either D2 or D3 (latter fact courtesy St. Mary's (TX) history page). 

Prior to that, they were in the Big State Conference, which was also NAIA.

Interesting, to me at least, how the NAIA was once the dominant medium to small school collegiate athletics organization before hemorrhaging in the 1980s to 1990s leading to a different landscape now. It makes me wonder if the NCAA isn't on the cusp of big changes with huge headwinds like the CFP splitting off and NIL/portal/player compensation issues at the top levels.

[TLU02SA]

Prior to joining the NCAA, UMHB was a member of the NAIA's Heart of Texas conference, which disbanded in 2000 after all its members left the NAIA for either D2 or D3 (latter fact courtesy St. Mary's (TX) history page). 

Prior to that, they were in the Big State Conference, which was also NAIA.

Texas Lutheran was part of the Heart of Texas conference too.  I recall the conference, in its last days, consisted of St. Mary's, Incarnate Word, St. Edward's, UMHB, Texas Weslayan, TLU and Houston Baptist.  Really interesting seeing where all of those schools are now in the college sports landscape (D2 (Lone Star), D1 (Southland), D2 (Lone Star), D3 (ASC), NAIA (Sooner), D3 (SCAC) and D1 (Southland)).

[TLU02SA]

Prior to joining the NCAA, UMHB was a member of the NAIA's Heart of Texas conference, which disbanded in 2000 after all its members left the NAIA for either D2 or D3 (latter fact courtesy St. Mary's (TX) history page). 

Prior to that, they were in the Big State Conference, which was also NAIA.

Interesting, to me at least, how the NAIA was once the dominant medium to small school collegiate athletics organization before hemorrhaging in the 1980s to 1990s leading to a different landscape now. It makes me wonder if the NCAA isn't on the cusp of big changes with huge headwinds like the CFP splitting off and NIL/portal/player compensation issues at the top levels.

I wonder about the same thing.  I would also add the college enrollment cliff to the issues causing massive changes in how college athletics will operate.

[Mavchamp]

UMHB isn't going to go NAIA.

I don't think anyone believes they are/would.  Nor HSU.

ETBU is a long shot too IMHO.  I think they'd go D2 before NAIA.  NAIA is last resort and it would likely be short term only. 

HPU is the only one that may consider it seriously.

All that's JMHO