FB: American Southwest Conference

[BSCpanthers]

I clicked on a few of those, one only had a Facebook presence.  None had any athletics that I saw, and all basically looked like online  While most schools add an athletic program to support their school, and add student involvement. It looks like Westgate is a startup football team starting a school for their players to "attend". 

It'll be interesting to see how many kids that have on roster once the season starts and how many finish the season, if the team itself finishes the season.  I know this was best thing you guys could get due the circumstances, but dang, this game is just an awful add.  But look on the bright side, at least you guys have a season, and a school.  More than I can say. 

[Ralph Turner]

BSC, Please stay around as D3 observer at-large.

[IC798891]

Re: Westgate

They are not a real college, they are not a real football program, this game is an embarrassment for the teams, and I don't care how hard it is for Texas D3 schools to find opponents.

Pulled directly from the Westgate website:

https://wcu.education/about/

"Each 3 credit hour course is only $190...Each course provides 10 hours of lecture, study guide, and exam. You can expect to invest a couple of hours two days a week to complete one course per month."

That is not a legitimate college education, bible college or not. 10 hours of education per course? Are you kidding me? I don't know how it is at your colleges, but at Ithaca, in class time per 3-credit course is about 35 hours over 14 weeks. That doesn't include the work you do outside of class or the final exam.

Oh and here is their football tryout form

https://media.hometeamsonline.com/photos/football/WESTGATERAVENS/WESTGATE_CHRISTIAN_UNIVERSITY_FOOTBALL_TRYOUT.pdf

Don't forget: If you want to try out for their football program, you need to bring $20 — cash only! Like, what are we doing here? You want to be the starting QB but don't forget to hand the head coach a crisp 20 before you put on the pads! ATM's over in the corner.

I just hope teams emerge from the "game" injury free

[Mavchamp]

The last Cory Hogue article was interesting talking about the future of the LSC with the possibility of West Texas moving up to FCS and heading to the SLC or the WAC.

Puts the LSC in precarious waters....and mentions that the remaining 4 of the ASC could be for the taking.

BUT.....

"UMHB has no interest in leaving D3 and will not consider a move to D2"

If the ASC folds...which appears to be an inevitability...what are UMHB's options in D3?  Going independent?  Do they manage to get a 10 game schedule in football?  What about non-football sports?  C2C?  Are they still holding onto a possible alliance with the SCIAC?

D3 just doesn't seem viable for any of us without the ASC.   

But they WILL NOT consider a move to D2?  WILL NOT?  Sounds like to me if they can't make D3 work...then it'll be FCS or bust.  Huge jump from D3 to the Southland Conference (which is where I'd guess they would land). 

Competing in D2 would be tough....but that jump to FCS.... playing schools so much bigger, with more alum groups, boosters, bigger fan bases.... exponentially larger budgets.  Sounds like a tough hill to climb.

HSU to the LSC seems like a slam dunk.  I have a hard time believing HSU has any interest in the FCS right now.

Money is still on HPU heading to the SAC/NAIA.....and longshot to end up in the LSC.

I'm hearing so much information about ETBU...who knows.  Seems split 50/50 between joining the SAC/NAIA for football and the Red River Conference for all other sports.  But this talk about the GAC isn't going away either.  The AD at ETBU has connections to folks in the GAC from his Rogers days....so...who knows.  But my money is still on the SAC.
--------

WILL NOT.....  I admire UMHB for being in a position to make that jump.  No one else in the ASC could IMHO.  But if I was a fan/alum....I'd be nervous about being such a small fish in a much bigger pond surrounded by sharks.

[wally_wabash]

"Each 3 credit hour course is only $190...Each course provides 10 hours of lecture, study guide, and exam. You can expect to invest a couple of hours two days a week to complete one course per month."

That is not a legitimate college education, bible college or not. 10 hours of education per course? Are you kidding me? I don't know how it is at your colleges, but at Ithaca, in class time per 3-credit course is about 35 hours over 14 weeks. That doesn't include the work you do outside of class or the final exam.

Yikes.  At the school I currently work at, our 3-hour course equivalent would require 10 hours of work (in and out of the classroom) per week for 15 weeks. 

[awadelewis]

"Each 3 credit hour course is only $190...Each course provides 10 hours of lecture, study guide, and exam. You can expect to invest a couple of hours two days a week to complete one course per month."

That is not a legitimate college education, bible college or not. 10 hours of education per course? Are you kidding me? I don't know how it is at your colleges, but at Ithaca, in class time per 3-credit course is about 35 hours over 14 weeks. That doesn't include the work you do outside of class or the final exam.

Yikes.  At the school I currently work at, our 3-hour course equivalent would require 10 hours of work (in and out of the classroom) per week for 15 weeks. 

Double yikes... as my understanding is the accreditors like SACS COC and HLC require a minimum of 40 contact hours in a course in their standards.  Per Westgate's web page, they are accredited by the National Bible College Association and not one recognized by the US Dept. of Education.  That web site is pretty explicit about telling prospective students to not expect their credits to be recognized by other institutions.

[IC798891]

Look, I get that schools like UMHB have really hard times scheduling. But I just can't fathom how anyone thinks this is a better solution than playing an intrasquad game on a bye week, or just not playing at all. Someone who played can maybe answer this, but isn't there a point at which the competition is so bad, you're not getting anything of value from the reps?

And just the optics of it. We've all seen our teams pound on overmatched D3 teams, it's the nature of the sport. But this doesn't feel like college starting a program and taking its unavoidable early life lumps. It feels like a D3 team playing a club or rec league team.

[Etchglow]

Look, I get that schools like UMHB have really hard times scheduling. But I just can't fathom how anyone thinks this is a better solution than playing an intrasquad game on a bye week, or just not playing at all. Someone who played can maybe answer this, but isn't there a point at which the competition is so bad, you're not getting anything of value from the reps?

And just the optics of it. We've all seen our teams pound on overmatched D3 teams, it's the nature of the sport. But this doesn't feel like college starting a program and taking its unavoidable early life lumps. It feels like a D3 team playing a club or rec league team.

I mean, NAU did the same thing their first year or two. Charged for tryouts and to play, played anyone who would play the, and now are NAIA. Honestly, I kept hoping that the ASC would make a play for them...

[IC798891]

\

I mean, NAU did the same thing their first year or two. Charged for tryouts and to play, played anyone who would play the, and now are NAIA. Honestly, I kept hoping that the ASC would make a play for them...

Again, the  main issue is the school the "team" is associated with. No legitimate college awards 3 credits for 10 hours of work and $190, and tells students they can complete that course in a month.

[Ron Boerger]

Nobody is defending UMHB's schedule (note they play at UW-Whitewater) and the people harshest about it have been UMHB supporters.

But do notice that they are not alone in scheduling a game against Westgate; both HPU and ETBU have as well.  That should tell you that there's something odd when three of the four have to stoop to such depths to find a game.

[Mavchamp]

Nobody is defending UMHB's schedule (note they play at UW-Whitewater) and the people harshest about it have been UMHB supporters.

But do notice that they are not alone in scheduling a game against Westgate; both HPU and ETBU have as well.  That should tell you that there's something odd when three of the four have to stoop to such depths to find a game.

Depths is no lie......not to mention....ETBU will be playing Westgate at home on a Friday night the same night Marshall will be hosting Longview just 3 miles away in another stadium.

There likely won't be 300 people at the ETBU game..... because there will be 10,000 across town watching a high school game.

Bad game.
worse scheduling

[IC798891]

Nobody is defending UMHB's schedule (note they play at UW-Whitewater) and the people harshest about it have been UMHB supporters.

But do notice that they are not alone in scheduling a game against Westgate; both HPU and ETBU have as well.  That should tell you that there's something odd when three of the four have to stoop to such depths to find a game.

Again, my issue is not "The teams are playing a team that's going to be overmatched!"

It's not about how good or bad they are.

I don't believe they are a legitimate college or university. The game is simply not intercollegiate athletics

[ADL70]

For the future could UMHB follow a path similar to that St Thomas chose when they were kicked out of the MIAA? They went D1 Summit Conference for all but football and non-scholarship FCS Pioneer Football League for football?

They were able to get a waiver from the long transition process reclassifying to D1 because of extenuating circumstances.

The Cru could go Pioneer for football and Southland for all other sports, if it could get a similar waiver.

https://www.pioneer-football.org/standings/2023/

https://www.southland.org/allstandings.aspx?path=mbball

[crufootball]

Nobody is defending UMHB's schedule (note they play at UW-Whitewater) and the people harshest about it have been UMHB supporters.

But do notice that they are not alone in scheduling a game against Westgate; both HPU and ETBU have as well.  That should tell you that there's something odd when three of the four have to stoop to such depths to find a game.

Again, my issue is not "The teams are playing a team that's going to be overmatched!"

It's not about how good or bad they are.

I don't believe they are a legitimate college or university. The game is simply not intercollegiate athletics

I am sure that Coach Harmon and Randy Mann would love to talk to Coach Toerper or Susan Bassett about coming to Ithaca next year so we don't have to play Westgate or John Melvin in the future .

Those games are NOT good looks but very little about our schedule looks good this year. Unless you want to call Coach Harmon a liar, we contacted every D3 school, the only people to say yes was UWW and a top 10 NAIA team and we will have to fly to both of them. The year before we traveled to UWRF with no return game, to Trinity (also no return game) and played UWW at home.

While I did not play collegiate sports or football at all actually, I did play baseball and I think I can speak for our athletes when I say they just want to play. These games might be blowouts but even if they are they will be blowouts against another team and none of our players will care about how much the other side paid per credit hour.

[Etchglow]

Nobody is defending UMHB's schedule (note they play at UW-Whitewater) and the people harshest about it have been UMHB supporters.

But do notice that they are not alone in scheduling a game against Westgate; both HPU and ETBU have as well.  That should tell you that there's something odd when three of the four have to stoop to such depths to find a game.

Again, my issue is not "The teams are playing a team that's going to be overmatched!"

It's not about how good or bad they are.

I don't believe they are a legitimate college or university. The game is simply not intercollegiate athletics

I am sure that Coach Harmon and Randy Mann would love to talk to Coach Toerper or Susan Bassett about coming to Ithaca next year so we don't have to play Westgate or John Melvin in the future .

Those games are NOT good looks but very little about our schedule looks good this year. Unless you want to call Coach Harmon a liar, we contacted every D3 school, the only people to say yes was UWW and a top 10 NAIA team and we will have to fly to both of them. The year before we traveled to UWRF with no return game, to Trinity (also no return game) and played UWW at home.

While I did not play collegiate sports or football at all actually, I did play baseball and I think I can speak for our athletes when I say they just want to play. These games might be blowouts but even if they are they will be blowouts against another team and none of our players will care about how much the other side paid per credit hour.

Amen, Coach Harmon and Randy Mann basically stated they wanted to give the players GAMES. They could've scheduled a scrimmage, but almost no one shows up to those. This way we get another home game. Perhaps some more kids will get to say they got to play in a varsity game out of it.

As to the cost per hour of tuition, I'm never going to belittle a program for having affordable tuition. I seem to remember tuition at UMHB being around 8k/semester back in 05-08 when I was there the first time. I was able to pay the vast majority of it through part time jobs... Today it is 16k...