FB: American Southwest Conference

[Crubacker]

So, I can sue if I drink a cold Coca Cola and it causes me to belch in church so loud that I am humiliated and can't face the congregation ever again?  Emotional and spiritual distress?

[Caz Bombers]

She didn't drink it. It spilled in her lap in her car and burned her so badly that even through her clothes her reproductive and excretory organs were fused shut. Why don't you try that sometime and see how funny you find it.

[Crubacker]

My point was, this country is full of lawsuits, whether frivolous or not.  You can sue for anything nowadays not that I asked for your speculation as to my frame of mind when I wrote that but thanks for asking!

[Mavchamp]

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2025/02/18/future-of-asc-football-will-the-baptist-4-find-a-new-home?ref=article_preview_title

[Mavchamp]

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2025/02/18/future-of-asc-football-will-the-baptist-4-find-a-new-home?ref=article_preview_title

I just don't see ETBU or HPU getting an invite to the SCAC.  Not based on anything and everything I'm finding online.

While I can SOMEWHAT wrap my brain around SCAC members not wanting to invite HSU or UMHB due to their football dominance.... no such thing can be claimed by HPU or ETBU. 

HPU and ETBU have been very middling in the ASC.  How could anyone think either would become dominant like HSU or UMHB have?

I don't think the SCAC's reluctance to invite HPU or ETBU is rooted in football/sports.... but possibly more rooted in political and doctrinal differences between the schools.  Not to make it TOO political.... but I think there are some adversarial feelings between the more conservative and the more liberal institutions.

The ONE saving grace that could MAYBE put ETBU over the edge of getting into the SCAC is proximity to some of the other members to create some travel partners.

With ETBU being in Marshall..... having LeTorneau in Longview and Centenary in Shreveport puts THREE schools all within about an hour of each other.  That's significant.  Centenary and LETU could be a life-line to get the Tigers an invite. 

Lyons and Hendrix might would support having ETBU to add another "neighbor" closer to their schools than most of the rest of the SCAC.  ETBU sits about 225-250 miles from both.  Most of the rest of the SCAC schools are well over 500 miles from each.

With Centenary, LETU, Hendrix, and Lyon supporting it.... there is a longshot.  But I'm not convinced it will be enough.

HPU seems like a long shot to the SCAC too solely based on geography.  Adding the political/doctrinal issues... it seems unlikely.

[TLU05SA]

Unfortunately, the article is behind a paywall and I am not going to subscribe just for this article.
The rest of this post is complete speculation on my part.

I have always thought this ends with ETBU and HPU in the SCAC and HSU and UMHB in another division. Yes, doctrinal issues have played a part but only minimally. I really think this has more to do with UMHB and their athletic department looking more like an FCS athletic department than a DIII athletic department. Possibly the same with HSU but to a lesser extent.

So why has this not happened? The fact that the schools have portrayed themselves as the Baptist Four. Not so much the Baptist part but more "we are a package and, if you want any of us, you have to take us all" approach. Obviously, the SCAC is not biting on that.

Is this a flight from UMHB? You can describe it that way, fair or not. However, I think there is a little more going on as well because you don't see the same reaction to Trinity with their athletic department, who is certainly on (possibly/probably above) the level of UMHB and HSU across all sports. Doctrinal? Again maybe. Was it the fact that UMHB had to vacate a football championship for improper benefits? That might play a part and I could see where some might view that infraction as the tip of the iceberg of what they are really competing with financially. It seems to be a both/and type of deal. The FCS like athletic program plus the doctrinal/financial ability components that make many schools and conferences leery.

Anyways, my prediction, once UMHB moves on to DII or FCS, the log jam will be loosened, HPU and ETBU will be in the SCAC and HSU will either be in the SCAC or DII.

[CNU85]

My sincere apologies for making a comment that has taken away from the intent of this board. Football. 

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming....

Cheers ya'll.

[Mavchamp]

Unfortunately, the article is behind a paywall and I am not going to subscribe just for this article.
The rest of this post is complete speculation on my part.

To be honest....there wasn't anything really Earth shattering in the article.  It was a recap of the demise of the ASC starting with the defection of Belhaven and others to where we are now.

Including talks with the C2C and the SCIAC falling through.

The rest of the article is speculation as to where the remaining ASC members land...which has been discussed here ad nauseam.

The only new/original/"INTERESTING" thing I noticed was how the reporter states that he has had several sources that have gone completely silent on him.  No longer returning texts, phone calls, or giving information.

He actually said "something changed" during the football season.  The silences.  And by Christmas that even cordial replies had stopped. 

Maybe the round-robin soured for the remaining four.  Maybe the "one for all and all for one" has come to an end and it's every man for himself now. 

We don't know.  And apparently neither does he.

But the fact that "something changed" seems somewhat ominous.  It may not be.  But it seems that way considering the complete lack of news that has come out.

[Mavchamp]

I have always thought this ends with ETBU and HPU in the SCAC and HSU and UMHB in another division. Yes, doctrinal issues have played a part but only minimally. I really think this has more to do with UMHB and their athletic department looking more like an FCS athletic department than a DIII athletic department. Possibly the same with HSU but to a lesser extent.

So why has this not happened? The fact that the schools have portrayed themselves as the Baptist Four. Not so much the Baptist part but more "we are a package and, if you want any of us, you have to take us all" approach. Obviously, the SCAC is not biting on that.

I hope you are right.  It's what I think most people associated with ETBU and HPU are hoping for.  There's no question IMHO that ETBU would prefer to remain D3....but not at the expense of having to go to Southern California or the Atlantic Coast to do it.  They would probably just bite the bullet and add scholarships and either go NAIA or move up to D2 (Great American Conf).

But I sure am skeptical.  Sure seems like the SCAC isn't interested....even if it's just ETBU and HPU and not all four.  I certainly hope I'm wrong.  The SCAC makes the most sense geographically.  The schools are all fairly close in enrollments.  There's history among many of them.

To be fair.... the "Baptist Four" is a title the writer of the article uses.  Not necessarily that the four are walking in unison together.  And IF they were..... one has to wonder if that's no longer the case.   

[Ralph Turner]

HPU can be a travel partner for McM.

[Crubacker]

Don't know if it's updated or if D3football.com even has the information or not, but it appears that UMHB does not have any open dates for 2025 which would indicate they have a full schedule.  HSU is showing 3 open dates.


Pat,  any input on this?

[Mavchamp]

There were a couple of other things that somewhat raised an eyebrow for me......

1.  The ONLY scenario offered to save the ASC involved the giving of MILLIONS of dollars to two current SCAC schools to return to the ASC.  Which schools would it be?  Would they even accept what is basically a bribe to return?  Where do those MILLIONS of dollars come from and who would be paying for it?

2.  He concedes that ETBU and HPU could head to the Sooner Conference if neither choose to go D2 and no other D3 conferences come calling.  He mentioned ETBU to the SAA....but said they aren't interested in another far west school.

3.  HUS and UMHB basically have the choice to go FCS and and join the Pioneer league.  Interesting he didn't even mention the Southland.  But that both would be near the bottom in the conference concerning endowments.

4.  He states that neither HSU or UMHB have any interest in D2....even though he thinks both could be immediately competitive....even in football.  He states that the schools admins, students, alum, and coaches have no interest in D2.  WHY?  If you are immediately competitive....why not?  Vs. the risk of being a bottom feeder in FCS?  Makes no sense to me.  Would a UMHB or HSU fan explain the aversion to D2?  Geographically the LSC makes perfect sense.  Travel would be OK.  The Pacific Northwest schools would likely get the boot.  Tons of schools in West and South Texas.  He says they don't want to offer scholarships.  But they want to go FCS?  D2 seems like a perfect alternative. Seems like a logical step up before taking the plunge to FCS.  They are lucky to have the D2 option.  Because.....TBH...IMHO...it's not a realistic option for ETBU or HPU.  Especially not the LSC.

Seems like a waiting game....even though he thinks everyone individually already has their fate in hand.  THey are all just waiting for someone to make the first move...and then all the other dominoes will fall in place.

So...if true......who makes the first move?

[TheChucker]

There were a couple of other things that somewhat raised an eyebrow for me......

...
4.  He states that neither HSU or UMHB have any interest in D2....even though he thinks both could be immediately competitive....even in football.  ...

Per the bolded regarding D2, and maybe this is a question for the board...

Can D2 teams keep large football rosters like many D3 teams do? Most D2 rosters I've seen are in the low 100s.

Like many D3 teams, UMHB and HSU both have very large rosters (not sure about ETBU and HPU). If for some reason D2 makes it hard to keep large rosters for football (or any other sport), maybe D2 would be a double whammy of lower revenue and higher costs?

[Ron Boerger]

My guess is that the ASC will announce they will officially call it quits at the end of next season, and that the schools are planning on what to do already (and plans may already be in flight).  HPU and ETBU go to the C2C and find someone who will let them affiliate in football (the SCAC might be willing given their numbers situation and Schreiner's possible failure to launch).  Since the SCAC (and soon-to-be SAA) schools already play both of them in nearly all sports, they'll be able to find a good number of non-conference games since there aren't really any in-conference games for the C2C other than the championships.  The same option would apply to HSU and UMHB, but if they can't find anyone willing to play them outside of the ASC in football already it's hard to imagine a conference inviting them for the sport as an afilliate. 

Or maybe the two newish SCAC schools mentioned by Cory will be lured back by a few million, hard as that would be to believe.  The non-football schools could be more willing to think about it, but that doesn't solve the conference's football problem.  Compounding the issue is the front office's continuing radio silence on the ASC's future. 

[TheChucker]

Per the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.