FB: American Southwest Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Don't know if it's updated or if D3football.com even has the information or not, but it appears that UMHB does not have any open dates for 2025 which would indicate they have a full schedule.  HSU is showing 3 open dates.


Pat,  any input on this?

UMHB has not listed open dates for 2025 on our site. We don't assume dates are open and just list them -- they have to let us know.

We sent an email out to all D-III head coaches in January reminding them that the service is here.

[Crubacker]

Thanks for the info Pat.

[Mavchamp]

Per the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

That's really good info.  Very interesting.  But it's a kind of comparing apples to oranges a little. 

Those numbers alone don't explain that different schools offer not only a different number of sports...some more some less....but some offer sports that aren't common.

ETBU has hockey, bass fishing, gymnastics, sand volleyball.....  sports that aren't traditionally offered at many of the SCAC schools.

So yeah..... their budget is larger.....but it's being spread out over more sports.   It's not like difference in budget is solely being poured into "main sports" i.e..... football..basketball....baseball....softball. 

I can't imagine hockey being cheap.  Nor gymnastics. 

[CNU85]

My guess is that the ASC will announce they will officially call it quits at the end of next season, and that the schools are planning on what to do already (and plans may already be in flight).  HPU and ETBU go to the C2C and find someone who will let them affiliate in football...
 

My understanding is that the C2C is no longer an option. But, I've been wrong before.

[crufootball]

Per the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

That's really good info.  Very interesting.  But it's a kind of comparing apples to oranges a little. 

Those numbers alone don't explain that different schools offer not only a different number of sports...some more some less....but some offer sports that aren't common.

ETBU has hockey, bass fishing, gymnastics, sand volleyball.....  sports that aren't traditionally offered at many of the SCAC schools.

So yeah..... their budget is larger.....but it's being spread out over more sports.   It's not like difference in budget is solely being poured into "main sports" i.e..... football..basketball....baseball....softball. 

I can't imagine hockey being cheap.  Nor gymnastics. 

I am curious how those numbers are put together. UMHB doesn't have hockey but we do have A&T and Beach Volleyball but neither of those sports are NCAA sports so I wonder if that is or is not included. We also do have a Bass Fishing team but it is a club sport so I don't believe its funding is connection to athletics at all.

[Etchglow]

Per the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

That's really good info.  Very interesting.  But it's a kind of comparing apples to oranges a little. 

Those numbers alone don't explain that different schools offer not only a different number of sports...some more some less....but some offer sports that aren't common.

ETBU has hockey, bass fishing, gymnastics, sand volleyball.....  sports that aren't traditionally offered at many of the SCAC schools.

So yeah..... their budget is larger.....but it's being spread out over more sports.   It's not like difference in budget is solely being poured into "main sports" i.e..... football..basketball....baseball....softball. 

I can't imagine hockey being cheap.  Nor gymnastics. 

I am curious how those numbers are put together. UMHB doesn't have hockey but we do have A&T and Beach Volleyball but neither of those sports are NCAA sports so I wonder if that is or is not included. We also do have a Bass Fishing team but it is a club sport so I don't believe its funding is connection to athletics at all.

Iirc, Hockey and Fishing are still considered clubs ports for ETBU.  Iirc every bass fishing team at a NCAA affiliated university is a club sport as they don't sponsor it.  Most of them are

[TheChucker]

Per the EADA website (2022 data):

$4.5M - average "D3 with football" athletic department spend
$4.8M - average Texas "D3 with football" spend excluding Sul Ross

$6.9M - UMHB
$6.8M - Trinity
$5.6M - ETBU
$5.5M - Southwestern

$4.5M national average

$4.1M - Lyon
$4.0M - McMurray
$3.9M - TLU
$3.7M - Hardin Simmons
$3.6M - Hendrix
$3.3M - HPU
$3.0M - Austin
$3.0M - Centenary (pre-football data)

The bottom half is basically the new SCAC with spending below the national average. If I had to guess, this is how the SCAC will eventually play out. I'm a bit surprised on the HSU spend; they get a lot out of moderate spending.

ETBU is a wild card as they invest more heavily in athletics than the current SCAC schools. They do have very nice facilities for D3 IMO.

Trinity and Southwestern have already separated themselves voluntarily, UMHB involuntarily, and it probably stays that way.

That's really good info.  Very interesting.  But it's a kind of comparing apples to oranges a little. 

Those numbers alone don't explain that different schools offer not only a different number of sports...some more some less....but some offer sports that aren't common.

ETBU has hockey, bass fishing, gymnastics, sand volleyball.....  sports that aren't traditionally offered at many of the SCAC schools.

So yeah..... their budget is larger.....but it's being spread out over more sports.   It's not like difference in budget is solely being poured into "main sports" i.e..... football..basketball....baseball....softball. 

I can't imagine hockey being cheap.  Nor gymnastics. 

Hockey and bass fishing aren't included in the athletic department expenses listed. Track and gymnastics are not that expensive to offer assuming the college already has a track and a gym. ETBU spends more than most in softball (no surprise), baseball and probably facilities. There's a pretty large category for expenses not allocated by sport which I assume is probably facilities and maybe administration?

Here's a link to the source data: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search

[CNU85]

Beach Volleyball is a part of these numbers. At UMHB, the Beach Volleyball reported expenses total $133,381
There is also a category "All Other Sports". For UMHB that total was $179,491. I'm not sure what this covers, but it is related to Women's Teams only.


Here's a link where you can customize your search and not necessarily focus on one school.

EADA

[TheChucker]

Beach Volleyball is a part of these numbers. At UMHB, the Beach Volleyball reported expenses total $133,381
There is also a category "All Other Sports". For UMHB that total was $179,491. I'm not sure what this covers, but it is related to Women's Teams only.


Here's a link where you can customize your search and not necessarily focus on one school.

EADA

If you're a spreadsheet nerd like me, there's a ton of data to mess around with.

[Ron Boerger]

If you call out just the football expenses, and this is 2022, you get the following:

UMHB $1.68M
Trinity $1.09M
HSU $1.06M
ETBU $902K
Southwestern $865K
HPU $763K
McM $684K
TLU $650K
Austin $607K

[Ron Boerger]

UW-W will visit Belton on September 20.

[UMHB03]

UW-W will visit Belton on September 20.

Nice. Always a fun mini-rivalry.

[Crubacker]

According to Texasfootball.com, UMHB and HSU have been in talks with the Lone Star conference for the last 2 years now.  Don't know how that has progressed or if anything has come from this.  Really frustrating that we are not hearing anything from the ASC about what is happening.

[Etchglow]

According to Texasfootball.com, UMHB and HSU have been in talks with the Lone Star conference for the last 2 years now.  Don't know how that has progressed or if anything has come from this.  Really frustrating that we are not hearing anything from the ASC about what is happening.

Found this interesting post over on the D2 boards:

This was discussed a few months ago. I am close to the UMHB situation. They are not interested in the LSC because they would not have the budget to compete. The Great American Conference is attractive to them because that conference has a much lower average budget than the LSC. There is zero chance they will consider FCS - there's nowhere to come up with another $13-15 million per year to swing it.

Their budget current is $7 million, but tuition-paying athletes are contributing heavily to this. Most of those would go away in an athletic scholarship model, and the university would instead be paying out. When that is all netted out, they need to find $3-4 million a year to be competitive in the GAC, and $5-7 million to be competitive in the LSC.

[Ron Boerger]

But would the GAC be interested in adding the not-insignificant travel to get to HSU and UMHB (in all sports) as their footprint now is strictly OK and AR?   Maybe it's not that much for the schools in southern OK but for the ones in AR, it's a drive. 

There are only 36 scholarships permitted in D2 football - some of the non-athletic aid currently granted could be suddenly called athletic, reducting the net impact.  Other sports might be impacted more - you can give/divide 10 full scholarships in both MBB/WBB, 9/9.9 in soccer, etc (details here).