FB: American Southwest Conference

[Bob.Gregg]

ASC guys,

Here's the question.

If I fly in, where do I fly in to?  Austin? 

[Josh Bowerman]

Toby, Schoepf's was my fault. 

As our parents used to say, "if you can't say anything nice, then say nothing at all."  The way I felt after the game, there was no way I could say nice things--so we hit the road.

Now, my one and only rant on the subject of today's game:

This is why the penalty call was ABSOLUTELY wrong:

1.  The ball was never snapped, meaning that the game was in a "dead ball" status.

2.  The side judge indicated that a timeout had been asked for and granted.

The "breaking the huddle with 12 men" rule only applies to the offensive team, or more appropriately, "the team designated to put the ball in play"--according to the current edition of the NCAA Football Rules book.  Also, since the ball was not in play at the time, 12 men on the field could also not be called.  The correct call was no call--other than the timeout.

The officials were just plain wrong.  Period.  Anyone can check it out in the rule book if you don't believe me.

FURTHERMORE, I've never seen a sport where the coaches are permitted to leave the sidelines to berate the officials.  This is the second time Pete Fredenburg has done this this season in games versus Hardin-Simmons.  Not only should the "illegal substitution" penalty not have been called, but there is an extremely strong case for an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to have been called on Fredenburg!

That play was THE critical point in the game.  HSU had finally stopped UMHB.  The Crusader defense was on the ropes.  The eggregious mistakes by the officials completely changed the complexion and momentum of the game, and ultimately affected the outcome of the game.

While I wish UMHB good luck moving forward in the playoffs, I cannot and will not ever think anything but that the game was spurilously given to them by the officials.

[CNU85]

85, that's not the whole truth, and you know it.

Opening possession, Presidents go right up the field and drop a td pass on the post.

Second possession, Presidents go right up the field and score.

At least three more times, post or post-corner was WIDE OPEN and just overthrown.

Until 27-0 and the Presidents went to the pack-it-in-run, CNU could not/did not pressure W&J offense at all.  Brought 3, brought 4, didn't happen.

Swallow started 7 for 9 for 56 yards and 1 score (should have been 8-9 for 91 yds and 2 scores).

And, by the way, the total offense differential was almost entirely in the second half AFTER it went to 27-0.  At that point, it was 192-186 CNU.....

The Captains got it going, the Presidents couldn't get it going again.

I think we're saying the same things...just from different poitns of view.....I was referring to total yards when I said "manhandled"...and if it was even in yards at the half...yikes...that means you guys got zero yards of O in the second half...not a good way to prepare for next week. ....and I did give your o-line credit for giving your QB time. The "drives" you refer to were not long 75-80 yard drives...they were shorter ones after turnovers. On one of thes eboards I gave your guys credit for being opportunistic..especially Cherish (?) who had the 3 picks.

The turnovers killed CNU and I give W&J credit for creating those turnovers. However, if W&J plays the same way next week and UMHB holds on to the ball....it's a blowout. Just an opinion....nobody really knows what will happen next week. It could very well be UMHB holds on to the ball and still loses to you guys....I'm just expressing what I think will happen. It's not personal.

[Bob.Gregg]

It wasn't personal, 85.

And I agree about next week, that the same production will likely mean the exit of the Presidents.

As far as the drives:

1st possession should have been 68 yd scoring drive, 6 plays (dropped pass).

2nd possession was 67 yard scoring drive, 9 plays.

2nd td followed pick.

3rd td was returned pick.

4th td, 49 yards, 7 plays following fake punt.

Some of both sides.

Turnovers were created, mostly.  Fumble by jarring hit by Gitlitz.  Cherish made nice breaks on ball for two of the three.  Mullen's pick he cut under receiver very nicely, and pressure was being applied most of the time.

And there should/could have been one more.  Faison first pass of the game (first CNU play from scrimmage) Cherish had two hands on it at mid-field.

[Toby Taff]

Toby, Schoepf's was my fault. 

As our parents used to say, "if you can't say anything nice, then say nothing at all."  The way I felt after the game, there was no way I could say nice things--so we hit the road.

Now, my one and only rant on the subject of today's game:

This is why the penalty call was ABSOLUTELY wrong:

1.  The ball was never snapped, meaning that the game was in a "dead ball" status.

2.  The side judge indicated that a timeout had been asked for and granted.

The "breaking the huddle with 12 men" only applies to the offensive team, or more appropriately, "the team designated to put the ball in play"--according to the current edition of the NCAA Football Rules book.  Also, since the ball was not in play at the time, 12 men on the field could also not be called.  The correct call was no call--other than the timeout.

The officials were just plain wrong.  Period.  Anyone can check it out in the rule book if you don't believe me.

FURTHERMORE, I've never seen a sport where the coaches are permitted to leave the sidelines to berate the officials.  This is the second time Pete Fredenburg has done this this season in games versus Hardin-Simmons.  Not only should the "illegal substitution" penalty not have been called, but there is an extremely strong case for an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to have been called on Fredenburg!

That play was THE critical point in the game.  HSU had finally stopped UMHB.  The Crusader defense was on the ropes.  The eggregious mistakes by the officials completely changed the complexion and momentum of the game, and ultimately affected the outcome of the game.

While I wish UMHB good luck moving forward in the playoffs, I cannot and will not ever think anything but that the game was spurilously given to them by the officials.

I wondered if that was why y'all didn't show, and I understand.  I wish you would have called though, we waited until 4 before heading home.  (BTW the brisket was very tender today  )

If you are correct about the 12 men in the huddle rule, and I don't doubt you, they missed it twice.  The infraction they called on MHB was also on the defense before the snap of the ball.

[CNU85]

It wasn't personal, 85.

And I agree about next week, that the same production will likely mean the exit of the Presidents.

As far as the drives:

1st possession should have been 68 yd scoring drive, 6 plays (dropped pass).

2nd possession was 67 yard scoring drive, 9 plays.

2nd td followed pick.

3rd td was returned pick.

4th td, 49 yards, 7 plays following fake punt.

Some of both sides.

Turnovers were created, mostly.  Fumble by jarring hit by Gitlitz.  Cherish made nice breaks on ball for two of the three.  Mullen's pick he cut under receiver very nicely, and pressure was being applied most of the time.

And there should/could have been one more.  Faison first pass of the game (first CNU play from scrimmage) Cherish had two hands on it at mid-field.

yep, we're saying the same thing.....you can't give an offense like W&J a 60 yard field....the o line gives the QB time to do his stuff. CNU has a very good D...hence you only gained 181 total yards...but the short field due to turnovers and the pick returned for a td...killed us. I could play the what ifs all night but won't. Fact is we lost b/c W&J took advantage of what was going on. And we agree that another 181 yd performance will mean bad news next week......if UMHB doesn't turn the ball over 6 FREAKIN' TIMES!! (you think those TOs are bothering me? Maybe I need to see a shrink!!)  

[Josh Bowerman]

I owe you an apology, Toby.  I AM sorry about not calling--I hope that I can make it up to you sometime in the future--maybe Joe Allen's?  

[CNU85]

Bob,

Also, I forgot to point out that from your last post, you proved my point...only 1 scoring drive longer than 50 yards (can't count the first possession "should've" drive....you're older than that...you don't still think about "should'ves and "could'ves do you? They don't count.....they're just "didn'ts")

CNU should've won...didn't
CNU could've won..didn't
CNU should've started Bryant at QB...didn't

I'm too old to think that way....a waste of time....

CNU lost and is not playing next week. That's all that matters.

[Josh Bowerman]

Why are you guys discussing the CNU/W&J game in the ASC thread?

[CNU85]

Last post for the night....

I also agree, Bob, that the turnovers were created...no doubt about it. In fact, in a previous post I mentioned that Cherish was always in position. And the fumble....a hit on Hilliard....well...he got "JACKED UP"...you could hear that hit up in my seats!!

W&J did what they had to to win....it will not be enuff next week...."step it up or go home" should be the coaches speech this week.

[CNU85]

Josh,

I was just giving some insight for the UMHB fans on W&J. Bob responded with his point of view and it just continued. Are you just curious or is it really bothering you?

[Josh Bowerman]

More curious than anything--it seemed like it might be more appropriate in the South Region Playoff thread.

[CNU85]

you're right....I think Bob went to bed anyway.....I'll continue any discussions over in the other thread...sorry about that

[Zmotion10 out on 2]

Just got in from the game.  Too tired to post anything of substance.  But I will tommorow.  Very long day today.

[Josh Bowerman]

you're right....I think Bob went to bed anyway.....I'll continue any discussions over in the other thread...sorry about that

Sorry, I'm probably more than a little bit grouchy, CNU.  Bad day in Belton today.   Please don't hold it against me long-term.