FB: American Southwest Conference

[fatboy]

i would say there are still onlt 2 power houses in the ASC although all the teams will be improved

[finkle89]

I would not be surprised at all to see more upsets this year, talent per team is getting closer, agree that HSU and UMHB are the top of the class but the gap is closing with MC, TLU, SR being competitive.  That is the great thing about this game, that is why we play the game. Nothing is garenteed.

[footballfan413]

In my opinion, it will be as difficult for HSU to replace Neal as it was for Linfield to replace Elliott.  Jordan Neal was the heart and soul of the HSU team... 

for "five" seasons.

Losing Brett was a huge deal but I think a loss that was on Par for the 2006 'Cats was the WR's Linfield lost....Casey Allen, Brandon Hazenberg, and Brad McKechnie.  If you watch the first 4 minutes of this clip you can see that group (#8, #3, and #29) just made Brett that much better.

It sounds like HSU has a number of great playmakers returning so I would think the Cowboy offense will be just fine.

Great clip.  Ya.................. I remember those boys as well!     Especially #8 

[Zmotion10 out on 2]

HSU preview

http://hsuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/073007aab.html

Great job HSUSID!

[Ralph Turner]

Hello finkle! Good to hear from you.

I am looking forward to seeing you, your lovely bride and kid and your dad!

[fatboy]

I do agree that the rest of the conference is getting better.  But besides HSU and UMHB there was not another team in the ASC over 500 in conference.

TLU 4-4
SR 4-4
HPU 3-5
ETBU 3-5
LC 2-5
McM 2-6

I mean the conference was all over the place last year, until any of these teams win some games with any consistency.
More upsets I would say for an upset to happen in the ASC HSU or UMHB gets beat don't see that happening, I mean everybody else was tied for 3rd and 5th place last season.

[Ralph Turner]

I do agree that the rest of the conference is getting better.  But besides HSU and UMHB there was not another team in the ASC over 500 in conference.

TLU 4-4
SR 4-4
HPU 3-5
ETBU 3-5
LC 2-5
McM 2-6

I mean the conference was all over the place last year, until any of these teams win some games with any consistency.
More upsets I would say for an upset to happen in the ASC HSU or UMHB gets beat don't see that happening, I mean everybody else was tied for 3rd and 5th place last season.

Fatboy, let's take that last thought further.  Look at the parity that we have in the ASC.  HSU and UMHB beat the other 7 and then the bottom 7 beat each other up.

Will ETBU & McM be different (scheme wise) and better record wise?

For the 2006 season, change these three things and we have a 7-way tie for 3rd place at 3-5.

1)  the Inevitable -- HSU goes on to defeat LaCollege in the Thunderstorm game
2)  the What-if -- LaCollege blocks the last-second FG by TLU
3)  the Upset -- McMurry beats SRSU.

We need to evaluate the ASC by our non-conference games.  If the ASC is stronger, then we will see it in the games against Trinity, Austin College, Millsaps, etc.

[finkle89]

I agree with Dr. Turner, it will be exciting to see how everything unfolds. 

[Bill McCabe]

Refresh my memory, but how well have the other 7 teams played against UMHB and HSU.  I remember UMHB had to rally to beat ETBU and TLU was competitive last year.  HPU beat UMHB 2 years ago.  How about HSU?  2 years ago did TLU beat HSU?  I'm not sure the others have closed the gap all that much.

[fatboy]

All I am saying until these teams can consistently beat the rest of the teams in the conference year in and out, besides just upsetting UMHB, or HSU one year.  Look at the teams who have done that.  ETBU beat both in 2003 and then went 4-6 and 6-4 the next 2 years.  TLU goes 7-3 in 2004 only losing to the Texas big 3 then goes 5-5 losing 3 of those game they had won in 04, also they help UMHB out by beating HSU in the last week after Losing back to back game to HPU and SR. HPU goes 7-2 in conference in 2005 then precedes to go 3-5 in conference.  Not trying to bash any team but the only teams that have played consistently well is HSU and UMHB. 

[Josh Bowerman]

All I am saying until these teams can consistently beat the rest of the teams in the conference year in and out, besides just upsetting UMHB, or HSU one year.  Look at the teams who have done that.  ETBU beat both in 2003 and then went 4-6 and 6-4 the next 2 years.   

ETBU lost 20-14 to HSU in overtime in 2003.  Because the game went into overtime and HSU scored with the second posession, they were by rule not allowed to attemp the PAT.  It cost HSU the ASC Championship that year (because of the ASC's Point Differential Tiebreaker system at the time).  I was there, I remember it pretty well.

In fact, ETBU has never beaten HSU in football.  HSU is 7-0 against the Tigers, all time.

[hpudad]

I've read all of these post about how the ASC is the big 2 and the other 7.  How do you think the schools enrollment and location affect the sports teams?

School population and location:

Mississippi College, 3,800 Students, Clinton Mississppi

UMHB, 2,700 Students, Belton Texas

HSU, 2,500 Students, Abilene Texas

Sul Ross State, 1930 Students, Alpine Texas

HPU, 1400 Students, Brownwood Texas

McMurry University, 1400 Students, Abilene Texas

Texas Lutheran University, 1400 Students, Seguin Texas

East Texas Baptist University, 1350 Students, Marshall Texas

Louisanna College, 987 Students, Pineville Louisiana

I got the enrollment numbers from each schools web site. 

[headlinesman]

This isn't high school, where the schools with the larger numbers have a bigger field to choose from.  Last time I checked, HPU, TLU, or McM are probably recruiting the same kids that HSU recruits.  I'm not sure what the location of the school has to do with it either?  Abilene and Belton are not just necessarily the entertainment capitals of Texas.  I think you have to look at a lot of things, not just size and location:  tradition of program (if that's the case, McM beats everyone in the league), stability of the coaching staff, support from the administration, etc.  If anyone had a built in advantage, it should be SRU, because they charge only state school tuition.  So, the criteria are literally too many to enumerate.

[Ron Boerger]

That said, kids want to associate themselves with a winning program and UMHB and HSU have the tradition.  It's hard to overcome that sort of recruiting edge - not impossibile, but you have to dangle things like "but YOU CAN START ON DAY 1" to get kids to think about programs without proven track records ... and starting freshmen is not something you want to do unless you've got a real star on your hands, not something we see that often in D3. 

Look at the coaching situation, too:

UMHB - Coach Fred since day 1 (1998)
HSU - Coach K since day 1 (1990)

McM - Donny Gray, first season.
ETBU - Mark Sartain, first season.
TLU - Dennis Parker, first season.
SRSU - Steve Wright, sixth season
HPU - Mike Redwine, third season
MC - Norman Joseph, second season
LC - Dennis Dunn, second season

Every time you change head coaches it disrupts a program.  Some kids will leave but even worse it messes up your recruiting for a year or two.   

Only Wright at Sully has been around more than a couple of years and that's one reason I think you're seeing some improvement in Alpine (he must also be a good coach, obviously!).   But even at that his teams were 0-10 the first two years, which underlines the difficulties new coaches can encounter.

[hpudad]

I was think of enrollment and location as part of recruiting.  Abilene is a nice size city.  Belton is less than a hour drive from Austin.  Pineville is across the river from Alexandra.  Is an athlete more interested in playing in front of larger crowds?  School enrollment would have an effect in that as far as recruiting goes.  What about student make up (male / female student ratio) does that have an effect in recruiting? 

Is there a correlation between enrollment and athletics?  UMHB and HSU are in the top three in the ASC in enrollment and look at the year that HSU and UMHB had in all sports not just football.  The other schools in the ASC had their moments in other sports. 

I think we need to remember that these schools are all DIII and do not give athletic scholarships.  Why are there more students at some schools than at others?  I understand that whole thing about reputations and traditions at various schools.  I agree that the length of time that the coaching staff has been in place is a factor but is there more?