FB: American Southwest Conference

[Bill McCabe]

hpudad,

I think UMHB is in an ideal location for recruiting as a D3 program.  They are in a heavily populated area and are close to Austin, Dallas and Houston.  TLU is the only other school with that type of situation.  Central Texas has a very good recruiting base and UMHB has found excellent players from smaller schools in this area.

[HSWho2007]

Plus the ratio is roughly 4-1 ladies to guy.
Also, the opportunity to win rings is why UMHB and HSU gets the better recruits.

[Ralph Turner]

More accurately, 64% female 36% male  Click for Peterson's data.

UMHB's current president has driven this change in the character and emphasis of the school. 

As for success in the NCAA competition, we had this debate about a month ago.  You can find is going across 4-5 pages starting here.

[minni]

Why is this a continual topic on here.  We all know who is going to be fighting for the top two spots.  HSU and UMHB beat each other up every year, twice a year.  The other seven beat each other up and just fall into place.  There may be a surprise team every once in a while that the top two teams may take lightly on a given Saturday.  As far as recruiting, I can only speak for HSU.  But when you walk into the hall of fame room and they have their layout and all these rings just sitting out, the are hypnotizing.  Yea UMHB has won some conference championships lately and they have had better success than HSU in the playoffs lately (man thats hard to type and think) but they are still a few championships shy of what HSU has.  

This season should be interesting.  I believe HSU and UMHB play earlier in the season this year on October 6th in Abilene.  That leaves several weeks after that for an upset by someone else.  Less than a month away for the first kickoff.  Go Cowboys!!!

[Ralph Turner]

Also, the opportunity to win rings is why UMHB and HSU gets the better recruits.

As for winning rings, that is why you see recruits going to successful programs all across the conference...

HSU, HPU and McMurry for Women's hoops.
McMurry and Miss College for Men's hoops.
TLU, McM, Miss Coll and UTD for baseball.
McMurry for men's and women's track and field, etc.

[Bill McCabe]

It always comes back to winning! 

[cheddar8314]

I would like to jump into this. You are all talking about the size of the schools, the location, and the winning traditions, but I think there is one more issues that no one has said. What about the cost of the school? I think the big issue is that the two powerhouses of Texas, UMHB and HSU and I am sure many more in DIII are allowed to give Presidential scholarship to their athletes. This is something that I believe plays a big part of success for these schools. When you have a place like SRSU that does not have the money to give these types of scholarships, it makes it hard to recruit the good athletes that cannot afford to go to school. To me it makes the playing field lopsided and I believe that this issue is overlooked.

[CNU85]

I would like to jump into this. You are all talking about the size of the schools, the location, and the winning traditions, but I think there is one more issues that no one has said. What about the cost of the school? I think the big issue is that the two powerhouses of Texas, UMHB and HSU and I am sure many more in DIII are allowed to give Presidential scholarship to their athletes. This is something that I believe plays a big part of success for these schools. When you have a place like SRSU that does not have the money to give these types of scholarships, it makes it hard to recruit the good athletes that cannot afford to go to school. To me it makes the playing field lopsided and I believe that this issue is overlooked.

and my 2 cents..for what it's worth 

what about academics......degree desired....academic programs offered...academic facilities? - you know - stuff that goes on in college.

Also - I don't know much about the ASC schools....is religion an issue?

[Josh Bowerman]

Religion is always an issue in Texas, CNU85!

Minni brings up the issue of HSU and UMHB playing early in the year.  Man, I sure wish it was on another date--roocru and I could have gone to the Texas-Oklahoma game this year if for compulsively not being able to miss the annual ASC showdown!   

[Pat Coleman]

I would like to jump into this. You are all talking about the size of the schools, the location, and the winning traditions, but I think there is one more issues that no one has said. What about the cost of the school? I think the big issue is that the two powerhouses of Texas, UMHB and HSU and I am sure many more in DIII are allowed to give Presidential scholarship to their athletes. This is something that I believe plays a big part of success for these schools. When you have a place like SRSU that does not have the money to give these types of scholarships, it makes it hard to recruit the good athletes that cannot afford to go to school. To me it makes the playing field lopsided and I believe that this issue is overlooked.

A Texas resident can take 21 credit hours at SRSU for $3,177. Which side is the lopsidedness on?

[cheddar8314]

That might be true, but when a kid right out of high school comes into a coach's office and the coach says I have a scholarship for you that will pay for your school. Compared to a coach saying we don't give scholarship so you have to pay for your own school, but it is just $3,000 a semester. What do you think that athlete is going to do? You should know that most students coming out of high school are just looking for some kind of scholarship, even if that means that after they get that scholarship they are still paying more for school then they would at SRSU. The funny thing to me is that the coaches don't really tell the students this; the students have to find out on their own. So I believe that the field is still lopsided, and you are ignorant to think other wise.

[Ralph Turner]

That might be true, but when a kid right out of high school comes into a coach's office and the coach says I have a scholarship for you that will pay for your school. Compared to a coach saying we don't give scholarship so you have to pay for your own school, but it is just $3,000 a semester. What do you think that athlete is going to do? You should know that most students coming out of high school are just looking for some kind of scholarship, even if that means that after they get that scholarship they are still paying more for school then they would at SRSU. The funny thing to me is that the coaches don't really tell the students this; the students have to find out on their own. So I believe that the field is still lopsided, and you are ignorant to think other wise.

Cheddar, that is what the web site is telling you.  You have not even begun to look at any of the financial aid packages that may be available to you:  a student from a certain county in Texas; a certain ethnic group; a certain SAT score that merits aid available to all students.

HSU $21,896 including $16050 per year ($10,000 more per year in tuition). $4950 per year R&B.

SRSU $3177 per semester, $5650 R&B per year.

You make a sad commentary on the wisdom that your proverbial high school student has gained.

Also, "Presidential scholarships" cannot be given disproprtionately to athletes relative to the general student body.

[cheddar8314]

So you are telling me that the coaches don't have a say in who receives these scholarship. I think that we both know better then that. Also I do know about all of the Financial aid opportunities available to each student, but that is not my point, my point is that the coaches should not have an influence in who receives scholarships and who does not.

[Ralph Turner]

So you are telling me that the coaches don't have a say in who receives these scholarship. I think that we both know better then that. Also I do know about all of the Financial aid opportunities available to each student, but that is not my point, my point is that the coaches should not have an influence in who receives scholarships and who does not.

I will not deny that a coach has some "say" in the scholarship, but the institution is not going to risk any impropriety in their financial aid policies vis-a-vis the NCAA.

What are the criteria that the coach will use in the "say"?

1)  Likelihood of academic success.
2)  Will the kid hang around for his degree even if the athlete realizes that there are 3 better QB's ahead of him?  Why give student aid to a student from whom you won't get the full four years of course work?
3)  The kid will not default on his student loans.
4)  The kid will not get into "off-the-field" trouble.

What is driving every one of the coaches in the ASC and D3, from Coach Keeling and Coach "Fred" down to first year Head Coach Donny Gray at McMurry, is the question, "What type of man will this kid become?"

[Josh Bowerman]

Cheddar, as someone who is a college administrator at a DIII school, I can tell you that the head coach has almost no say in who receives what scholarship--or even how much financial aid a student gets.  How much aid a student qualifies for is based on a standard, government-implemented formula that determines financial need.  With regard to scholarships being awarded, there are many factors at play, none of which is athletically based in any way, shape or form at the DIII level other than by pure coincidence--or by the student in question being so remarkably talented in the classroom that they qualify for true academic merit aid. 

To counter Ralph's statement, it's been my experience that coaches may get some latitude in admissions decisions, but even there they're not going to get a kid who's three notches below the average standard at the school admitted because he might be a good football player--not at the DIII level.  And admissions and financial aid are two completely different animals, so it's important not to muddy those waters by lumping them all together.

You're giving the head football coach (in this case) a lot more power than they really have.  At a DI school, you might be right.  But at the DIII level, their authority doesn't extend much past their own "kingdom"--and that applies even to Coach Keeling or Coach Fredenburg. 

Finally, it's pretty brazen on your part to suggest ignorance on Ralph's part.  I can assure you as someone who knows Ralph and his background, he's spot on in his comments about 99% of the time.  Rather than taking an inflammatory tone with your comments, you'd be better served by positing rational questions and concerns, and listening to what folks like Ralph have to say--because they're right a lot of the time and offer up good information.