MBB: Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference

[upb88]

Well said Hawk Backer. It was just Lake Erie's year. Go get 'em Storm in the NCAAs.

And well done Hilbert. I've taken a liking to the Hawks. Let's hope Hilbert and Pitt-Bradford get a good "219 Rivalry" going.

The AMCC is on the rise! Don't mess with them mountain boys. (OK, for the purpose of that slogan, we'll pretend that the Allegheny Mountains extend west to Cleveland.)

[David Collinge]

Here's how I see the final regional rankings, assuming I have recalculated the QoWI correctly:

1. Wittenberg (20-3, QoWI 10.652)
2. Hope (17-2, 10.211)
3. Baldwin-Wallace (22-4, 10.077)
4. Wooster (21-3, 10.042)
5. Carnegie Mellon (15-4, 10.474)
6. Calvin (13-2, 9.750)
---------------------------
7. Lake Erie (18-4, 9.682)
8. Bethany (20-4, 9.417)
9. Ohio Northern (17-6, 9.130)
10. Albion (12-4, 9.125)

Pool C candidates shown in boldface; Pool B candidate shown in italics.

[upb88]

David, on the NCAC forum you wrote that Wittenberg's JV could probably beat Lake Erie. Are you just assuming that the AMCC champion is necessarily a joke, or have seen Lake Erie in action, or are you comparing scores with common opponents... or what? Certainly anything less than a rout will leave you looking quite foolish. If anyone associated with the Storm is reading this, I hope this comment from a well-respected "guru" of Division 3 basketball goes up on the "bulletin board." Not that you should need any motivation to win an NCAA tournament game, but this BS statement could help. I'm always amazed by the condescending arrogance of some fans on this board. The Witts and the Woos and the Zoos and the Yippie Ki-ay Mofos think they are God's gift to college basketball, yet they forget that Division III is at or very near the bottom of the college basketball food chain. Remember, there's some average Division II program whose fans can say, "Witt? Our JV can beat them!" End of rant. I feel better.

[David Collinge]

Far be it for me (a Wooster grad) to provide bulletin board material for Wittenberg's next opponent! 

My hyperbole was mostly intended to contrast Randolph-Macon to Lake Erie as a first-round opponent, but no, I don't think Lake Erie has more than a small chance to beat Wittenberg.  That's what the history of the tournament tells me.  It may not be a "rout," because Witt's slow tempo and stifiling defensive style don't often lead to big margins, but I don't expect that the game will ever be in doubt.  I hope I am wrong, which will certainly make me look quite foolish--a feeling I am quite familiar with! 

(In my own defense, I should point out that I have been pointing out for several weeks, here but mostly elsewhere, how Lake Erie was a stronger Pool C candidate than either Albion or Ohio Northern, and I'd like their chances against an opponent of that stature.  But not against a national top 5 team like Wittenberg.)

[upb88]

Is history always instructive? Whose history? Wittenberg's or Lake Erie's? Hey, no need to haul out the cliché about the games not being played on paper. And the great tradition of college basketball cinderellas in the postseason. I have no problem with the way you've characterized this game in your latest post. Of course it will be an upset if Lake Erie wins, and they know it, I'm sure. I just thought the JV remark was mean-spirited. But you never answered the question: where did you learn so much about Lake Erie?

[upb88]

P.S. I see you're trying to wiggle out of your statement by calling it "hyperbole" and suggesting Witt's style doesn't allow for a rout. But I think it's fair to say that if you thought Witt's JV could beat Lake Erie, then you were indeed predicting a rout. So if it's Witt by 8 or something, you are not off the hook. OK, the six other AMCC posters can step in and back me up anytime now.

[David Collinge]

Okay, you caught me.  Witt's JV team probably could not beat Lake Erie.  I should be more precise with my language when I am exaggerating to make a point.  ()  It certainly wan't intended to be mean-spirited, and I'm sorry you took it that way.  It was meant to be (dare I say it--dare! dare! ) hyperbolic.

I think Witt should have an easy time on Friday.  However, for a different view of that game, see the NCAC board and a recent post by Wooster Booster.

[upb88]

I think you should stay out of the hyperbolic chamber and away from ridiculous computer simulations of basketball games. I love the Wooster Booster's line -- "I see the result as just a fluke, something that's probably more of a possibility when just dealing with numbers than when the actual players get on the court." Isn't that the definition of a simulation? It's kind of scary, actually. Are we going to reach a point where the real games are played as simulations of what the computers will eventually decide? A grim look into the future. Brrrrrrr.

Seriously, I think Lake Erie will represent the AMCC well. Instead of waltzing to the tournament, they stumbled a bit toward the end, but still won two overtime games in the conference tournament. So they are both confident, yet humbled a bit perhaps. This might be the best team the AMCC has sent to the tournament. Going on the road, being the underdog, being the unknown, being taken lightly might all work to their advantage. We shall see. All that matters is what happens on the court. Wooster Booster would certainly love that bit of obviousness.

[fighting_scots]

DC--you're constantly learning about the language of the law--PRECISE!  Nice "wiggling", by the way--you're learning, at the expense of the Lake Erie fans

I don't think Witt will have as easy of a game as what most people are saying--Witt tends to play to the level of their opponent, and Sat. night was the very first time this year Witt played defense with a passion. 

Witt seems to get fired up when they see black and old gold--unless they see Lake Erie with uni's that have WOOSTER painted across their chest, I think it will be closer than what many think--closer, but I still think that Witt should handle them, IMO--For crying out loud, they have Borchers and Russ, 6'9's and athletic! 

Who knows?  It's tourney time, and anything can happen!!!

[cantbestopped]

In defense of upb88 in his recent spat with the almighty David Collinge , I have to say that I believe Lake Erie has at least a punchers chance against Wittenberg for one simple reason, guards usually dictate tournament play,
                      Combined
Richardson/Williams              Steffes/Denbow
190 assists                            94 assists
25.8 pts/per                           7.0 pts/per

and while nobody can argue the size that Wittenberg has upfront, you can't ignore the athleticism and depth that Lake Erie presents as well.  And if your telling me that lake Erie doesn't have a chance why is it that Wittenberg recently lost to Wabash a team that usually starts no one over 6'5"(they did start Coffey against Witt but he played a limited role with Zimmer off the bench playing a bit more productive). Size is nice but it doesn't mean that your dominance is guaranteed, plus Wittenberg turns the ball over just as much as their opponents do, which is very unusual occurrence for a team that only lost three games all year and playing a slow down offense. I don't know what will happen because I haven't seen Wittenberg play anymore this year than David Collinge has seen Lake Erie play, I think it will be a pretty good game and this is the tourney, weirder things have happened in history David, haven't they?

[David Collinge]

Hey, I'm ALMIGHTY now!  8) Watch out, world!  No more wars, no more hunger, no more disease--things of the past!  And people who have opinions will be freely allowed to express them!  Life is gonna be good from now on! 

I don't have anything to add to this increasingly silly conversation.  I'm glad you folks are fans enough of the Storm (or at least the conference) to find offense in my little jest and subsequent prediction.  Maybe you should go down to Springfield on Friday and cheer on the Storm.  If I could be there, that's what I'd be doing.  I wouldn't have much hope, but I'd cheer them on nonetheless.

Good luck to Lake Erie on Friday.  Signing out...

[upb88]

Great post, cantbestopped! David... "little jest"? Saying someone's JV can beat another conference's top team? Honestly, I don't think you have the courage of conviction behind your comment. Maybe that's why you're "signing out." But at least we AMCC peasants can say, for one day at least, we were visited by the high and mighty.

[berlychick]

I for one hope that Lake Erie goes in there and plays like it seems they can
I for one am glad to see the AMCC being represented in the NCAA tourney as well as the ECAC...good luck Pitt-Greensburg and PSB...
its really nice to see the conference getting the press...

I love tourney time
anything can happen...

As for Witt just running all over LE...if their guards can control the pace and
their defense just plays tight...even with 6'9...heck who knows

congrats to all the AMCC teams in the playoffs and
good luck

[Hawk Backer]

Honestly, big guys are only as good as their guard play.

I have never seen Wittenburg's guards, nor have I seen their big people...

But I do know that Lake Erie has one of the best trios in the AMCC and the Northeast that I have seen in some time (Richardson, Williams, Harris)... If they didn't lose Washington to a broken ankle, they would have not lost 6 game and would have, I believe, received a better seed.

But so goes life.  Richardson is a very, very good D3 player, as good as anyone Wittenburg has on its team.  Harris played on a team with a D1 superstar in David Lighty, and was a featured player on the HS team.  He has a lot of talent and can produce.  Chad Hunt was a D2 player before he transferred to Lake Erie for his final season.  These guys can play.  Can they match a top-5 D3 team?  I really have no idea.  Should they have been seeded in this position?  That's up for debate.  But what is clear is that Lake Erie had a chance to top St. John Fisher, beat Bethany (a tournament team), beat Edinboro, a D2 team, and also had a chance to defeat a D3 tourney team, Lincoln, in which they were up 14 at halftime.

Anything can happen... And be very, very wary of the AMCC.... 

[BOKNOWSBBALL]

Lake Erie is a very talented team but no where near what Wittenburg has to offer.  Lake Erie's talent may keep them in the game but they will not be able to play a team, in every sense of the word ,team that Wittenburg has.  Lake Erie I dont belevie plays the total team game.  They have excellent talent and you can talk about their players and how good and where they came from but you see it everyday its not always the most talented team that wins but the BEST TEAM(sum of its parts) that wins. 

One thing that is for sure that is Lake Erie will not be scared of Wittenburg and I bet that Lake Erie will actually come into the game more cocky and confident like they did all season.  But like they came into the PS-Behrend game and played dirty, cocky and confident but ended up on the bottom end of a lopsided game.  It will be the same thing with Wittenburg.