Pool B

[d-train]

and it looks like they could've used a couple more wins over D3s with decent records to offset L&C, Menlo and Gustavus, who all look like they will be hurting them in OWP and OOWP.

I'm sure they would love to have more D3's on the schedule (Linfield as well). But there are major budget issues in trading a local games (Southern and Western Oregon) for additional plane trips...not to mention finding a willing home-and-home partner who can absorb those costs as well. 

[K-Mack]

and it looks like they could've used a couple more wins over D3s with decent records to offset L&C, Menlo and Gustavus, who all look like they will be hurting them in OWP and OOWP.

I'm sure they would love to have more D3's on the schedule (Linfield as well). But there are major budget issues in trading a local games (Southern and Western Oregon) for additional plane trips...not to mention finding a willing home-and-home partner who can absorb those costs as well. 

Agreed.

Which is why you folks need to talk to those (insert slightly derogatory term here) over at Pacific and George Fox and get them on the gridiron!

[northwr87]

I noticed last week that the QWP was taken off of the home page, I was just wondering when the OWP/OOWP numbers were going ot be posted? They might help this pool B discussion get a little clearer.

[Bob.Gregg]

actually, northwr87, at this moment in time, those numbers will muddy the waters, not make them clearer.

The passage of two weeks time (through games of Oct. 27th) will clear the waters, and make those numbers meaningful.

[Pat Coleman]

We hope to have them this week, regardless.

[Pat Coleman]

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

[billrt66]

K Mack or Pat:  Does Pool B or Pool C assignment come from a geographical origin or is it quality of wins, strength of schedule, conference strength, etc.? In addition, are conference AQs always Pool A?

[Ralph Turner]

K Mack or Pat:  Does Pool B or Pool C assignment come from a geographical origin or is it quality of wins, strength of schedule, conference strength, etc.? In addition, are conference AQs always Pool A?

The 2007 Division III Football Championship Handbook

Pools B and C are selected nationally on regional criteria.

Yes, the Conference AQ is the Pool A bid.

[K-Mack]

Got an e-mail from a Wash. U. parent today. Figured the discussion belonged here, so here's his e-mail (edited because I didn't ask first if I could post it with identifying info in there) and my response:

-------------- Original message --------------
From: <amcsparin@kc.rr.com>

Hi Keith!

First off, what a totally awesome web site! We've used it constantly for the last three years. Our son, [name withheld] is a senior [position withheld] at Washington University. He came up through very successful football programs in youth and high school here in [city withheld]. Missouri State Semis every year and finally a State Championship his senior year. He had several schools available to play football, but having the opportunity to even get into Wash. U. was a no-brainer for pursuing his education. But, he's been missing the excitement of playoff football.

So, the question. After their win up at North Central, they're 6-1 going into a bye week and way down inside all of our consciences is that remote possibility of them getting an invite to the playoffs. What goes into the decision to invite these small conference schools? Where can we find out how the brakets are set up? We've watched the National Championship the last couple of years on ESPN, but we're not exactly sure how those two teams get there? Part of the fun in high school was always knowing exactly where you stood because it went down the same way every year. Conference, Districts, Qtr. Finals, Semis, then State. We know we need to go to Case and Carnegie and win those games. But, is there anything else we can watch for?

Anyway, we'll look forward to getting some advice from you and learning how the D-III playoff system works. Thanks again for a great web site and keep up the good work!

[name withheld]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Name],
Thanks for the message. I will reply in plain English, but I'll also include some links which will help you explore further. The first of those is D3football.com's Playoff FAQ, followed by the Pool B board on the message board (that'll be good to follow going forward as the discussion is updated constantly, reflecting each week's results) and the NCAA handbook, which outlines the criteria for playoff selection:

D3football.com's Playoff FAQ
http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?question&category=Playoffs

Pool B message board on Post Patterns, under General Football:
http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=3830.330

NCAA handbook
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2007/2007_d3_football_handbook.pdf

OK,
So basically, here's how it breaks down. Of the 32 bids, 22 automatically go to winners of certain conferences, typically those who have seven or more teams. That's Pool A. Three bids go to Pool B, or teams from non-automatic bid conferences. Lastly, Pool C takes seven more teams who have not qualified in the other two pools.

You are Pool B. Where Wash. U. and the UAA is concerned, there is no automatic bid, so you are competing with teams from the Northwest Conference (hasn't had seven teams long enough to earn its automatic bid), the Atlantic Central Football Conference (5 teams) and independents. You are competing for one of three guaranteed slots, but if you grade out well enough on the criteria, Wash. U. could earn one of the seven Pool C (at-large) spots as well.

So specifically, to answer the question, here are some things to watch for.

Your basic criteria are record, strength of schedule, head to head and common opponent results vs. other teams being considered, results vs. regionally ranked teams (mostly other playoff teams and ones being considered). There's a caveat for in-region competition, but for right now, let's not confuse you with that.

- Win the final three. A loss doesn't necessarily eliminate you, and wins don't guarantee anything, but obviously the more the better.
- Keep an eye on Wesley, Salisbury, Case and the Northwest Conference. Those teams are going to be your main competition for the three Pool B slots. Holding the h2h over Case would be nice. Also, root for Salisbury to stay undefeated and Wesley to pick up their second loss when those two teams meet in Week 9.
- Root for Wheaton and North Central and everyone else you've played to win as many games as possible. This helps your strength of schedule (referred to on the boards as OWP/OOWP)

Basically, you want to be among the top three out of the UAA/ACFC/NWC pool. There's no rule that says any conference has to get any amount of Pool B bids, they just have to give out three. So the UAA could get two or zero. Two UAAs could go if you and Case were 9-1 and zero NWCs could go. In theory.

Failing that, you want your 9-1 or 8-2 record to stack up favorably against the rest of the country's runners-up when they select the seven Pool C teams.

There's a little more to it (secondary criteria, for instance, if the primary criteria doesn't solve it), but for now, that should have you looking at the right things.

I hope that makes sense. I am going to post this on the Pool B board, sans name & indentification. The responses generated there should help guide you too.
--
Keith McMillan
D3football.com National Columnist
Keith@D3football.com

[Bob.Gregg]

(as an aide to K-Mack's post)

Team (record/regional record)
Remaining Schedule (Regional Games in Bold)

1.  Salisbury (7-0/5-0)  including win over Christopher Newport (35-21)
Becker
At Wesley
Frostburg State

2.  Case Western Reserve (6-0/5-0)
St. Vincent
At Chicago
Washington (MO)
Ohio Wesleyan

3.  Whitworth (5-1/5-1) including win over Pac.Lutheran (28-21), Loss to Redlands, 24-12
At Azusa Pacific (non-NCAA)
At Willamette
Linfield
At Puget South

4.  Wesley (6-1/5-1) including win over Delaware Valley (24-21), Loss to Montclair State (27-26)
At Brockport State
Salisbury
At Morrisville State

5.  Pacific Lutheran (5-1/5-1) Loss to Whitworth, 28-21
At Linfield
Lewis & Clark
Willamette

6.  Washington (6-1/6-1) including win over North Central (16-13), Loss to Wheaton (55-14)
At Carnegie-Mellon
At Case Western Reserve
At Greenville

7.  Linfield (3-2/2-1) Loss to Willamette, 33-32, Loss to Western Ore., 32-20
Pacific Lutheran
At Menlo
At Whitworth
Lewis & Clark


Bubble (Need lots of help):
Husson (5-2)
Martin Luther (5-2)
Rockford (5-2)

Bubble at best:
Chicago (3-2/3-2) Loss to Elmhurst, 36-13, loss to Washington (MO) 31-10
Carnegie-Mellon
Case Western Reserve
At Northwestern (MN)
Eureka

Willamette (2-4/2-2) Loss to Gustavus Adolphus, 34-25, Loss to Puget Sound, 13-7, Loss Western Oregon, 23-9 (non-DIII), Loss to Southern Oregon, 34-27 (non-NCAA)
At Menlo
Whitworth
At Lewis & Clark
Pacific Lutheran

[Ralph Turner]

Great Post, K-Mack!  Right on!    +1!

[K-Mack]

(as an aide to K-Mack's post)

+1 k

[Bob.Gregg]

Salisbury wins
Case Western Reserve wins
Whitworth--loss to NAIA Azusa Pacific (38-34)
Wesley wins
Pacific Lutheran, loses, likely OUT of contention (losses to Whitworth, Linfield)
Washington idle
Linfield wins

Husson loses, out of contention
Martin Luther loses, out of contention
Rockford wins, stay on bubble

Chicago loses, out of contention
Willamette--wins, stays bubbly

[smedindy]

With Capital losing, there could be a greater chance that a "B" steals a "C". Would a two-loss Wesley team make it? If Case loses to Wash U., do both get in?

Only time will tell?

[Bob.Gregg]

Team (record/regional record)
Remaining Schedule (Regional Games in Bold)

1.  Salisbury (8-0 / 4-0)  including win over Christopher Newport (35-21)
At Wesley
Frostburg State

2.  Case Western Reserve (7-0 / 5-0)
At Chicago
Washington (MO)
Ohio Wesleyan

3.  Wesley (7-1 / 5-1) including win over Delaware Valley (24-21), Loss to Montclair State (27-26)
Salisbury
At Morrisville State

4.  Whitworth (5-2 / 5-1) including win over Pac.Lutheran (28-21), Loss to Redlands, 24-12
Loss to Azusa Pacific (non-NCAA), 38-34
At Willamette
Linfield
At Puget South

5.  Washington (6-1 / 6-1) including win over North Central (16-13), Loss to Wheaton (55-14)
At Carnegie-Mellon
At Case Western Reserve
At Greenville

6.  Linfield (4-2 / 3-1) Loss to Willamette, 33-32, Loss to Western Ore., 32-20
At Menlo
At Whitworth
Lewis & Clark


Bubble (Need lots of help):
Rockford (6-2)

Bubble at best:
Willamette (3-4 / 3-2) Loss to Gustavus Adolphus, 34-25, Loss to Puget Sound, 13-7, Loss Western Oregon, 23-9 (non-DIII), Loss to Southern Oregon, 34-27 (non-NCAA)
Whitworth
At Lewis & Clark
Pacific Lutheran

Pacific Lutheran (5-2 / 5-2) Loss to Whitworth, 28-21,
Loss to Linfield, 24-0
Lewis & Clark
Willamette