Pool B

[Mr. Ypsi]

Whither Pool B!  The ECFC?

Alas, when I went to 'kickoff', it would no longer post the 1-239 rankings.  (I realize there has been a whole season since then, so things might have changed.)  My guess is that (barring someone seriously upgrading) the ECFC AQ will be someone's first round 'speed bump' - weren't all 8 of these teams among the bottom 39 of the 239?

[Ralph Turner]

Whither Pool B!  The ECFC?

Alas, when I went to 'kickoff', it would no longer post the 1-239 rankings.  (I realize there has been a whole season since then, so things might have changed.)  My guess is that (barring someone seriously upgrading) the ECFC AQ will be someone's first round 'speed bump' - weren't all 8 of these teams among the bottom 39 of the 239?

I know what you mean.

I paid good money for that password!  Those archives are valuable to D3 historians!  What good is a subscription is you cannot use it 24/7/365!

(Slaps knee!  Falls off the chair!  ROTFLMAO!)

[Mr. Ypsi]

Whither Pool B!  The ECFC?

Alas, when I went to 'kickoff', it would no longer post the 1-239 rankings.  (I realize there has been a whole season since then, so things might have changed.)  My guess is that (barring someone seriously upgrading) the ECFC AQ will be someone's first round 'speed bump' - weren't all 8 of these teams among the bottom 39 of the 239?

I know what you mean.

I paid good money for that password!  Those archives are valuable to D3 historians!  What good is a subscription is you cannot use it 24/7/365!

(Slaps knee!  Falls off the chair!  ROTFLMAO!)

I agree.  At those exorbitant prices , we should have eternal access.

Pat, you got some 'splainin' to do.   (Didn't call you 'Lucy', but you catch the drift.)

The historians of d3 want these things to last forever.

[Ralph Turner]

Whither Pool B--Fall 2011   (Updated 16 April 2009  27 May 2009  29 June 2009)

There has been tremendous consolidation in D3 to take advantage of the Pool system of playoffs.  The Pools have provided a mechanism for equal access to every D3 Student athlete.  It is not the "Best 32".  That is another debate that has raged for 10 years.  At least a 9-1 Hardin Simmons, whose only loss was to a D2, is no longer staying home as in 1998.

This consolidation into conferences is impacting the Pool B schools.  From published reports and some well-founded speculation, we can imagine where Pool B will be in 2011.  Of course, something bizarre may happen and the 2011 playoffs will no longer resemble the 2005 playoffs.  But let's look at the moves that are occurring by then and assume that these moves are permanent.

North Region:  2 teams Remain in Pool B.  

UAA -- U Chicago and CWRU

Here are the North Region Pool A conference with members in parentheses. CCIW (8 ). HCAC (8 ), NCAC (10), OAC (10) MIAA (7) and the NATHC (8 ).

By 2011, I anticipate 6 Pool A conferences with 51 members in the North Region.  53 Total schools in the North Region



East Region:  6 teams Remain in Pool B, all from the Empire 8.

The Pool A conferences include the MAC (8 ), NEFC (16 teams in 2 divisions), NJAC (10), Liberty League (7) and the ECFC (8 ).

The Empire 8 is down to 6 members now, with the departure of affiliate Norwich to the NAC in 2009.  While this bodes well for getting a Pool B bids, they may have trouble getting games in October.  There is also discussion/rumor that E8 member Ithaca has been invited to the Liberty League.

When the North Atlantic Conference decided to sponsor football, it attracted affiliate programs from the District of Columbia to Vermont.  Joining NAC members Castleton St VT and Husson were affiliates Anna Marie College from the Commonwealth Coast Conference (CCC), Becker from the New England Collegiate Conference (NECC), Gallaudet from the Capital AC (CAC and the South Region), and Mount Ida and Norwich from the Great Northeast AC (GNAC).  Because the NAC does did not have four core members playing football, the conference is was ineligible to move to Pool A status.  So, the college presidents have formed the Eastern Collegiate Football Conference  (ECFC).  Those 8 Pool B's should be a Pool A conference in 2011.  Maybe they will entice other schools to add football.  (Edit:  5 May 2009).

Here are the East Region Pool A Conferences with the members in Parentheses.  ECFC (8 ), Liberty League (7), MAC (8 ), NJAC (10 ) and NEFC (16).


By 2011, I anticipate 5 Pool A conferences with 49 members in the East Region. 55 teams total in the East Region.



West Region: 3 Remain.

The Upper Midwest AC moves to Pool A with 5 members and 5 affiliates from the Saint Louis IAC.

Here are the West Region Pool A Conferences with members in parentheses:  Iowa IAC (9), Midwest (10 ), Minnesota IAC (9), Northwest Conference including Pacific (8 ), SCIAC (7), Upper Midwest AC (10), WIAC (8 ).

By 2011, I anticipate 7 Pool A conferences with 61 members in the West Region and 64 teams total.

The remaining three West Region Pool B schools will be Chapman, MIAC prodigal Macalester and Nebraska Wesleyan, which has not played enough D3 games to qualify for playoff consideration in years.


South Region:  5 6 Remain.

Here are the South Region Pool A conferences with members in parentheses.  ASC (9), Centennial (8 ), ODAC (7), President AC (9), SCAC including Hendrix and new member BSC and minus Colorado College (9), USAC (8 + Huntingdon and LaGrange = 10 and ? minus Shenandoah?  to some other Pool A conference?  EDIT 27 May 09).

By 2011, I anticipate 6 Pool A conferences with 52 members in the South Region.  57 58 Teams total.

The five six remaining Pool B schools are Wash StL, Carnegie Mellon, Wesley, Frostburg St, Salisbury,  EDIT 29 June 09 and Stevenson starting in 2010.

Sixteen (16) Seventeen (17) projected teams in Pool B in 2011.

That means one Pool B bid in 2011.
EDIT: Seventeen Pool B teams might mean two Pool B bids in 2011, depending on the access ratio.

[Bob.Gregg]

Ralph,

IF that happens (1 "B" in 2011), I GUARANTEE a "B" gets a "C" that year.....

[Ron Boerger]

I can C that.   

[pumkinattack]

I strongly believe there's going to be a lot of movement in the East conferences in the next few years.  There's no way the E8 remains for football as a pool B conference.  Too many of those schools care too much about football as a part of their athletic portfolio to let that happen (especially IC).

They either add a program, though most of the schools I hear thrown around aren't that likely (e.g. some of the MAC schools) or a few jump ship leaving the rest to fend for themselves.  I also could see the NEFC splitting into two at some point.   

[K-Mack]

Whither Pool B!  The ECFC?

Alas, when I went to 'kickoff', it would no longer post the 1-239 rankings.  (I realize there has been a whole season since then, so things might have changed.)  My guess is that (barring someone seriously upgrading) the ECFC AQ will be someone's first round 'speed bump' - weren't all 8 of these teams among the bottom 39 of the 239?

I know what you mean.

I paid good money for that password!  Those archives are valuable to D3 historians!  What good is a subscription is you cannot use it 24/7/365!

(Slaps knee!  Falls off the chair!  ROTFLMAO!)

I agree.  At those exorbitant prices , we should have eternal access.

Pat, you got some 'splainin' to do.   (Didn't call you 'Lucy', but you catch the drift.)

The historians of d3 want these things to last forever.

I think something about it turns over at the change of the year (from 08 to 09) ... even I lose access to it, or have in the past anyway.

I gain it back sometime during the Kickoff construction process when I bug the right people that we'll need it ... and it will be in place by the time you buy Kickoff again this year ... access to the archives is definitely something that's included.

[Teamski]

Once again, a single loss by a Pool B team can definately spell a short season!  I really hope the CAC can find a couple additional members within the next couple years to get Pool A eligible.

-Ski

[Ralph Turner]

Once again, a single loss by a Pool B team can definately spell a short season!  I really hope the CAC can find a couple additional members within the next couple years to get Pool A eligible.

-Ski

Just like losing a conference game in any other regular conference... 

Consider Pool B as one big conference.

Win 'em all and you are in. 

[Ralph Turner]

Whither Pool B--Fall 2011   (Updated 13 Jul 09)

There has been tremendous consolidation in D3 to take advantage of the Pool system of playoffs.  The Pools have provided a mechanism for equal access to every D3 Student athlete.  It is not the "Best 32".  That is another debate that has raged for 10 years.  .

This consolidation into conferences is impacting the Pool B schools.  Today the Empire 8 announced the affiliation of Frostburg State and Salisbury, which had played in Atlantic Collegiate Football Conference. From published reports and some well-founded speculation, we can imagine where Pool B will be in 2011.  Of course, something bizarre may happen and the 2011 playoffs will no longer resemble the 2005 playoffs.  But let's look at the moves that are occurring by then and assume that these moves are permanent.

North Region:  2 teams Remain in Pool B.  

UAA -- U Chicago and CWRU

Here are the North Region Pool A conference with members in parentheses. CCIW (8 ). HCAC (8 ), NCAC (10), OAC (10) MIAA (7) and the NATHC (8 ).

By 2011, I anticipate 6 Pool A conferences with 51 members in the North Region.  53 Total schools in the North Region



East Region:  No teams remain in Pool B.

The Pool A conferences include the MAC (8 ), NEFC (16 teams in 2 divisions), NJAC (10), Liberty League (7) the E8 (8 )and the ECFC (8 ).

The Empire 8 added Salisbury and Frostburg State today to begin play in 2011.  

When the North Atlantic Conference decided to sponsor football, it attracted affiliate programs from the District of Columbia to Vermont.  Joining NAC members Castleton St VT and Husson were affiliates Anna Marie College from the Commonwealth Coast Conference (CCC), Becker from the New England Collegiate Conference (NECC), Gallaudet from the North Eastern Athletic Conference (NEAC  and the South Region), SUNY Maritime from the Skyline Conference (SKY), and Mount Ida and Norwich from the Great Northeast AC (GNAC).  Because the NAC did not have four core members playing football, the conference was ineligible to move to Pool A status.  So, the college presidents have formed the Eastern Collegiate Football Conference  (ECFC).  Those 8 Pool B's should be a Pool A conference in 2011.  Maybe they will entice other schools to add football.  

Here are the East Region Pool A Conferences with the members in Parentheses.  Empire 8 (8 ),  ECFC (8 ), Liberty League (7), MAC (8 ), NJAC (10 ) and NEFC (16).


By 2011, I anticipate 6 Pool A conferences with 57 members in the East Region Conferences.



West Region: 3 Remain.

The Upper Midwest AC moves to Pool A with 5 members plus Presentation and 5 affiliates from the Saint Louis IAC.

Here are the West Region Pool A Conferences with members in parentheses:  Iowa IAC (9), Midwest (10 ), Minnesota IAC (9), Northwest Conference including Pacific (8 ), SCIAC (7), Upper Midwest AC plus Presentation (11), WIAC (8 ).  (When George Fox starts football is still not determined.  Presentation should start in 2011, too.)

By 2011, I anticipate 7 Pool A conferences with 61 members in the West Region and 64 teams total.

The remaining three West Region Pool B schools will be Chapman, MIAC prodigal Macalester and Nebraska Wesleyan, which has not played enough D3 games to qualify for playoff consideration in years.


South Region:  4 Remain.

Here are the South Region Pool A conferences with members in parentheses.  ASC (9), Centennial adding Susquehanna (10 ), ODAC plus Shenandoah (8 ), Presidents AC (9), SCAC including Hendrix and new member BSC and minus Colorado College (9), USAC, 8 + Huntingdon and LaGrange = 10 and minus Shenandoah (9)

By 2011, I anticipate 6 Pool A conferences with 54 members in the South Region.  58 Teams total.

The four remaining Pool B schools are Wash StL, Carnegie Mellon, Wesley and Stevenson starting in 2010.


Nine projected teams in Pool B in 2011.

That means zero to one Pool B bid in 2011 depending on the access ratio.


Corrections are appreciated.  This seems to be a moving target.

This alignment will give 25 Pool A bids, 1 Pool B bid and 6 Pool C bids.

[Bob.Gregg]

Is it too early to start projecting which B teams will make the dance?

I thought I'd ask....

[Ralph Turner]

Is it too early to start projecting which B teams will make the dance?

I thought I'd ask....

Maybe, but it is always fun to talk about Pool B.

Keith covers the move into conferences in the ATN, today.

http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2009-09-09/Why+they%27re+still+coaching

I see the current Pool B as being comprised of these schools.

The UMAC-10  (Pool A in 2011)
The ECFC-8  (Pool A in 2011)
The UAA-4
The Independents (4) (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Chapman, and Macalester.)
The ACFC-"3"  (Frostburg St and Salisbury to the E8 in 2011.)

Twenty-nine teams.  I think that means that we have 3 Pool B bids.

[altor]

I see the current Pool B as being comprised of these schools.

Ralph, have you seen the 2009 championship handbook, yet?  I'm guessing by the way you worded this sentence that you haven't either.  Either the NCAA hasn't released it yet or my Google-fu is extremely weak on this subject.

[Ralph Turner]

I see the current Pool B as being comprised of these schools.

Ralph, have you seen the 2009 championship handbook, yet?  I'm guessing by the way you worded this sentence that you haven't either.  Either the NCAA hasn't released it yet or my Google-fu is extremely weak on this subject.

No, I haven't seen the Handbook.  

Those are my best guesses about Pool B.  

Thanks for the response.  When you see the first release of the Handbook, please post the link for all of us.  +1!  


I appreciate how Pat Coleman keeps these message boards and our discussions as an ongoing think tank and archive as to what is happening in D-III for our deliberations.