Pool B

[usee]

They played Millikin tough?

[Pat Coleman]

Greenville is only a player in this game if other teams lose, but it does seem very possible that other teams might lose.

[Pat Coleman]

Latest regional rankings posted:
http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/03/ncaas-second-regional-rankings/

[martin]

Assume that 10-0 SUNY Maritime is in.  Wesley beats 5-4 Kean at home to go 9-0 and is in.

I think that leaves three teams for the last Pool B slot.
Norwich is 8-2.
Salisbury is 6-2 and plays at 2-7 Frostburg State.  A loss eliminates Salisbury.
The Chicago-Wash U winner will be 8-2.  Case can be 8-2 but with losses to both Chicago and Wash is out.

So who gets that last spot?

[algernon]

Assume that 10-0 SUNY Maritime is in.  Wesley beats 5-4 Kean at home to go 9-0 and is in.

I think that leaves three teams for the last Pool B slot.
Norwich is 8-2.
Salisbury is 6-2 and plays at 2-7 Frostburg State.  A loss eliminates Salisbury.
The Chicago-Wash U winner will be 8-2.  Case can be 8-2 but with losses to both Chicago and Wash is out.

So who gets that last spot?

I'd go with Salisbury.  They lost by only 3 to Wesley (9-0), and by only 4 to Hampden-Sydney(8-1).  They have a 48-point win over the USA South champ, Christopher Newport.

[Pat Coleman]

CNU isn't the USA South champ yet. 5-4 overall, too. I'd be more impressed with the Wash U win against Wabash, or, if Chicago wins, Chicago beating Case and Wash U. That's if we were basing it solely on the "most impressive win" quotient.

[martin]

If Chicago makes the playoffs, the Maroons might have a quick exit.  Chicago lost to Elmhurst 31-20.  The game was not that close.  Elmhurst led 31-7.  Chicago scored twice in the last five minutes to make it close.  Elmhurst lost to North Central 47-13.  And a Chicago-North Central first round matchup is likely - NCC a #1 seed, UC a #8.

But on the bright side, a week of good press as Chicago's football history is resurrected.

For the first time, the Maroons will be competing for a spot in the Stagg Bowl, named after their first football coach (from 1892-1932) Amos Alonzo Stagg.

Many reminders of the first ever Heisman Trophy winner, Jay Berwanger

Then there are the NFL connections.  The Maroons are the true Monsters of the Midway.  People may find this hard to believe, but at one time professional football was not that popular.  To try to get some of the appeal of college football to rub off on the Chicago Bears, George Halas took the orange and blue colors of the University of Illinois and the wishbone C logo and nickname of the University of Chicago.

Also, "We'll never forget the way you thrilled the nation with your T-formation" from "Bear Down, Chicago Bears".  I recommend the Chicago Symphony Orchestra version.  Also the a capella version by Bryan Griffin of the Lyric Opera is pretty cool.  Well the T-formation came from Clark Shaughnessy who was Chicago's coach when they dropped football in 1939.  The Bears used it to defeat the Redskins 73-0 in the 1940 NFL Championship Game.

The Maroons also have a connection to the now Arizona Cardinals.  They began life as a south side Chicago football team and joined the NFL as the Chicago Cardinals.  They got their nickname as the result of some used jerseys they purchased from UofC:

In 1901, the team gained longstanding identification when O'Brien, finding a bargain, bought used jerseys from the nearby University of Chicago. The jerseys were faded maroon in color, prompting O'Brien to declare, "That's not maroon, it's Cardinal red!" The club's permanent nickname had been born!

Uof C was also the inspiration for the best college football fight song - the University of Michigan's "
The Victors". From the Michigan Daily:

The Michigan fight song, "The Victors!," celebrates 100 years of leading the Wolverines into battle on the field this season.

It was on a train ride back to Ann Arbor after the 1898 football conference championship that then-student Louis Elbel jotted down the words that would eventually adorn the outside of the Big House.

"Having the fight song written by a student embodies the school spirit even more," said John Schmidt, a former marcher who now works as the band's physician.

Elbel, inspired after watching the one-point victory over what was then the heaviest team in the conference - the Chicago Maroons - thought the Wolverines needed a fight song that matched their power.

Stagg and Chicago so annoyed Michigan that the Wolverines quit the Big Ten from 1907-1916.  Stagg ran Chicago (some say not just the athletic department) and the Big Ten.  You can check out "Stagg's University: The Rise, Decline, and Fall of Big-Time Football at Chicago" by Robin Lester.

Some mention may be made of Chicago's national championships in 1905 and 1913.  And their seven Big Ten Championships.  And their 4-0 record against Notre Dame.

[Titan Q]

martin, don't be a stranger here...you're missed on these boards!

[Mr. Ypsi]

If Chicago played Notre Dame THIS year, they might be 5-0!

[wdelsean]

Assuming Wesley and SUNY-Maritime are in, there are the 5 2-loss teams.

(BY SOS)

#9 Salisbury - 4-2 region (Frostburg)
#56 Chicago - 7-2 region (Washington)
#66 Case Western - 6-2 region (Carnagie Mellon)
#123 Norwich - 8-2 region (FINISHED)
#200 Washington - 4-1 region (Chicago)

For the sake of argument, I'm going to give Case and Salisbury victories, leaving us with the Chicago/WashU game as the swing.

IF Chicago wins...

Salisbury 5-2
Chicago 8-2
Case Western 7-2
Norwich 8-2

Case is out due to the loss to Chicago, while Norwich's SOS will be too high in my opinion.

Salisbury's SOS will take a fairly serious hit against Frostburg, while Chicago's will go up, it may come down to how close they end up getting.   Salisbury's is .593, while Chicago is .526 (thanks D3football/Presto)  Chicago's best wins would be 7-2 Concordia and Washington, while Salisbury's best wins are NC-Wesleyan and Christopher Newport.  Neither will have beaten a regionally ranked opponent nor played anyone in common.  Who did you beat vs. who did you play?  Tough call but I'll say the SOS gets Salisbury in.

If Washington wins...

Salisbury 5-2
Case Western 7-2
Norwich 8-2
Washington 5-1

Case is out due to the loss to Washington, while Norwich's SOS will be too high in my opinion.

Washington's SOS is currently 200th, and even with the Chicago boost they have no chance of getting it anywhere near .500.  That said, they would only have one regional loss.  Would the committee reward WashU for only losing one game in region?  The east regional rankings having a unbeaten SUNY-Maritime behind several one-loss teams with better SOS act as a clue to me that SOS will trump that extra loss.  Advante: Salisbury.

Therefore I say a Gulls win against Frostburg puts them in, but there is a case to be made for the Washington/Chicago winner either way, and if I'm Salisbury, I'm probably rooting for WashU.

[joelmama]

You omitted in the analysis of Chicago their win over Case which is probably the best win of any of the comparisons.  I think Chicago gets in based on what you have there.

[Pat Coleman]

I think secondary criteria have to be taken into account in Pool B, as I mentioned in the podcast today, adn that boosts Wash U's SOS significantly.

[joelmama]

I agree but on the other hand if Chicago were to win they would have beat:

1. Concordia 7-3 or 8-2 last game looks to be about a toss up
2. Case Western Reserve likely 8-2
Washington U 7-3

While Salisbury has only beaten one team with a record better than 6-4

[wesleydad]

i dont think salisbury gets in, but to defend there not beating teams better then 6 - 4.  chicago hasnt played anyone on the level of wesley or hampden-sydney.  if they had then they likely would not even be in the pool b conversation.

[joelmama]

Wesleydad,

They did play play Wabash, and Case Western who are not too far off of the teams you mentioned and they did beat Case while Salisbury lost to those you mentioned.  IMO you shouldn't get credit for a playing a tough schedule if you lose them.