FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[reality check]

When you get 5 or 6 special admits and the rest of the team needs to get close to the average SAT score of 1300 to make it into the school, it makes it hard to develop a consistently competitive football program. Yesterday just spelled out the difference in both teams.

I know there's a difference between state schools and private colleges but ONU football lists as a cornerstone of the football program's philosophy an intent to have a higher team GPA than the general student population GPA of the school.  The team GPA was higher this spring than it has been in over 13 years.

That last sentence of yours looks suspiciously like an allegation that MUC lets poor students slip through the cracks to fuel the machine.  I hope that's not what you were trying to say as MUC's program is top-class as well.

[raiderpa]

at a Pro Football Hall of Fame luncheon club (where, yearly, Larry Kehres speaks the Monday following the last regular season game)  LK was asked what percentage of his players graduated...He stated that of the players who stayed with the football program only ONE in all his years did not graduate.....

that is a better percentage than his winning percentage..... 

This year, five players made ESPN academic all american.....(Maybe what makes Micheli hard to contain is the fact that while being a great athlete, he has a 3.89 in Physics....)

I am sure that all football programs have players they are quite proud of, along with those they wish would do better in the classroom, but don't tell me that Mount slips below par students into school to play football....does not happen...

[phil]

reality check,
...you would certainly be reading well between the lines to infer that from my post as I was referring to the sheer depth of talent MUC posseses. Did you see much from the skill positions from TCNJ? They did an awful lot this season without a ton of talent. It's been that way for quite awhile. Control the clock on offense and play tough defense - it can help make up for some shortcomings at the skill positions... and it can occasionally beat Rowan!

If you're a good ball player in Jersey with SAT scores which approach 1300, you have schools like Lafayette, Lehigh, Penn, Princeton, Delaware, Villanova, Muhlenberg (and all the Centennial and MAC teams), vying for your services. Although they're not exactly great football schools, there's a lot of scholarship money/aid and a private college education to be had.

I also didn't mean to infer that TCNJ was not a top 4 NJAC team. I'd argue that they have the best facilities and fan base in the NJAC, but building a Rowan-like NJAC dynasty is probably next to impossible to accomplish given the academics and admissions involved. No complaints here. I expected a three or four win season and big losses against the likes of Rowan and Montclair. Despite the bloodbath yesterday, it was a great year... totally unexpected... and hopefully they'll get a few good recruits and make run next year. Best of luck the rest of the way.

[Jonny Utah]

reality check,
...you would certainly be reading well between the lines to infer that from my post as I was referring to the sheer depth of talent MUC posseses. Did you see much from the skill positions from TCNJ? They did an awful lot this season without a ton of talent. It's been that way for quite awhile. Control the clock on offense and play tough defense - it can help make up for some shortcomings at the skill positions... and it can occasionally beat Rowan!

If you're a good ball player in Jersey with SAT scores which approach 1300, you have schools like Lafayette, Lehigh, Penn, Princeton, Delaware, Villanova, Muhlenberg (and all the Centennial and MAC teams), vying for your services. Although they're not exactly great football schools, there's a lot of scholarship money/aid and a private college education to be had.

I also didn't mean to infer that TCNJ was not a top 4 NJAC team. I'd argue that they have the best facilities and fan base in the NJAC, but building a Rowan-like NJAC dynasty is probably next to impossible to accomplish given the academics and admissions involved. No complaints here. I expected a three or four win season and big losses against the likes of Rowan and Montclair. Despite the bloodbath yesterday, it was a great year... totally unexpected... and hopefully they'll get a few good recruits and make run next year. Best of luck the rest of the way.

Phil,

TCNJ is not as hard to get into as you make it to be.  Its the same as Ithaca and probably SJF for the most part.  And its probably easier to get in there than a Union, RPI or Hobart.  Plus its half the price for instate students than an Ithaca and 2/3s the price for an out of state student.  Plus NJ is loaded with high school talent.

Now I dont know about the other NJAC schools, but TCNJ (like you say) should be compared to other "elite" private colleges in the northeast (Ithaca, Hobart, RPI, Union). 

And you most certainly do not need a 1300 to get into TCNJ. (they dont score them that way anymore anyway).  1300 would be the higher eschelon of students there.

[runyr]

Human Nature in Competitive Sports 101:
It doesn't matter the level or sport, when someone is successful, there's always a badly beaten loser who needs to rationalize their loss by bringing down the winner in some way.  In college sports, the academic card is usually the first one pulled, but the list goes on and on: cheating, money, privilege, etc.
It's hard for some losers to look themselves in the mirror, face reality and say, "I got my arse kicked fair and square" then move on, learn from the loss and strive to get better for the next challenge.
The great ones learn the lesson and come back to win it themselves.  Others tuck their tails between their legs, whine loudly and make excuses for why they will never get to that higher level.

[Jonny Utah]

Human Nature in Competitive Sports 101:
It doesn't matter the level or sport, when someone is successful, there's always a badly beaten loser who needs to rationalize their loss by bringing down the winner in some way.  In college sports, the academic card is usually the first one pulled, but the list goes on and on: cheating, money, privilege, etc.
It's hard for some losers to look themselves in the mirror, face reality and say, "I got my arse kicked fair and square" then move on, learn from the loss and strive to get better for the next challenge.
The great ones learn the lesson and come back to win it themselves.  Others tuck their tails between their legs, whine loudly and make excuses for why they will never get to that higher level.

I would be willing to bet that the best players at the d3football level are some of the best students at the school.  Thats what makes d3 so great.

[runyr]

Utah,
I agree with you on that one.  Discipline in one area often means discipline in others.  Here's a great example.
http://www.muc.edu/athletics/men_s_teams/football/2007_news_releases/eric_safran_earns_national_football_foundation_2007_national_scholar_athlete_award

[reality check]

We try to avoid the academic card in the OAC despite the fact that there are plenty of great academic schools and tremendous student-athletes at our schools.  I personally chose ONU because my test scores and interviews got me an academic scholarship that made going to ONU less expensive than attending my top public school choice in Cincinnati.  It was a no-brainer for me; to pick a private university known for its academics versus a lesser respected public school when the financial impact was similar.  The decision: Cincinnati and a $1500 academic scholarship vs. ONU and roughly a $15000 scholarship.  Oh yeah, and I got to continue with football with the latter choice.

Like I said, we typically avoid the academic card.  We leave that to some of the other conferences. 

You can't spell NESCAC without "N" "C" "A" "C".

[phil]

Jonny,
The average SAT score for frosh entering TCNJ last year was 1300. You'll find the info on the TCNJ website. They also got the "Most Competitive" rating from Baron's... "TCNJ joins the University of Virginia, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the College of William and Mary, and the University of California at Los Angeles as the only state-supported institutions among the 75 schools that Barron's lists in its "Most Competitive" category".

...and "reality check's" post proves my point.

[pg04]

Yeah, but wouldn't Freshmen coming in nowadays be taking an SAT that is out of 2400 points? 

[Jonny Utah]

Jonny,
The average SAT score for frosh entering TCNJ last year was 1300. You'll find the info on the TCNJ website. They also got the "Most Competitive" rating from Baron's... "TCNJ joins the University of Virginia, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the College of William and Mary, and the University of California at Los Angeles as the only state-supported institutions among the 75 schools that Barron's lists in its "Most Competitive" category".

...and "reality check's" post proves my point.

SATs have not been scored like that in over 2 years. 

Every other ranking has them lumped in with Providence, Bentely, Villanova and Ithaca, With Union, RPI and Hobart being ranked higher in different rankings.  Ive seen plenty of kids get into all those schools with non-Ivy numbers.  Ive been told TCNJ is no different.  All good schools, but your above average northeastern high school student is getting into all these schools.

[Ric]

Regarding the crap that went on between certain TCNJ players and a group of fans yesterday let me just say this.  I didn't see everything or hear much so I don't know everything that happened.  But what I didn't see was a problem.  I did not see one TCNJ coach get in their kids faces about even looking or reacting to the crowd behind them.  There should be much bigger things going on, like a football game.  We all know what would happen if a Mount player would do something like that.  The second time it happened I was really surprised their coaches didn't react better towards their kids.

But kids are kids.  And that had to be a frustrating day yesterday for them.  What can I say about a handful of adults that week in and week out have to show how little class they have and bring the entire college down with them.  YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND YOU KNOW ME AND ITS TIME YOU GROW THE HELL UP! This isn't high school, you're not students, you're adults, so how about you start acting like it!

I know for a fact some of you received letters a few years back about shaping up or running the risk of losing your season tickets.  Well its time the college does just that.  At the very least move them way down to the south end away from the players and away from the visiting fans.  This is the same group that jeered Tom Arth when he got hurt a few years ago and it's the same group that week in and week out has to do the stupid childish "Start the bus" chant.  I mean this isn't high school and you are not 16 years old.  We don't need this crap by you at these games. Because you bring us all down.

Oh btw, these are the same guys that never saw Jim Ballard take a snap.  In other words, they are bandwagon fans that never saw Mount Union play before they won national championships.  And they will be the first gone when the winning stops.  It's time Mount Union College, to get them the heck away from where they are!

[Jonny Utah]

Regarding the crap that went on between certain TCNJ players and a group of fans yesterday let me just say this.  I didn't see everything or hear much so I don't know everything that happened.  But what I didn't see was a problem.  I did not see one TCNJ coach get in their kids faces about even looking or reacting to the crowd behind them.  There should be much bigger things going on, like a football game.  We all know what would happen if a Mount player would do something like that.  The second time it happened I was really surprised their coaches didn't react better towards their kids.

But kids are kids.  And that had to be a frustrating day yesterday for them.  What can I say about a handful of adults that week in and week out have to show how little class they have and bring the entire college down with them.  YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND YOU KNOW ME AND ITS TIME YOU GROW THE HELL UP! This isn't high school, you're not students, you're adults, so how about you start acting like it!

I know for a fact some of you received letters a few years back about shaping up or running the risk of losing your season tickets.  Well its time the college does just that.  At the very least move them way down to the north end away from the players and away from the visiting fans.  This is the same group that jeered Tom Arth when he got hurt a few years ago and it's the same group that week in and week out has to do the stupid childish "Start the bus" chant.  I mean this isn't high school and you are not 16 years old.  We don't need this crap by you at these games. Because you bring us all down.

Oh btw, these are the same guys that never saw Jim Ballard take a snap.  In other words, they are bandwagon fans that never saw Mount Union play before they won national championships.  And they will be the first gone when the winning stops.  It's time Mount Union College, to get them the heck away from where they are!

Ric, they should not let those guys get seats at the top of the "visiting" stands.  That might be one of the problems.  Plus they sit down and yell at people in front of them that might want to stand up on a freezing metal bench!  I said before it was wierd how many people sit down to watch a football game there.  Every where Ive been people in the top row stand up to watch the game.

[e_lee]

Not a D3 topic but I used to read and post here frequently.  Just letting some of the "old school" posters that my thoughts have been away from D3 this year as the team I coach here in South Carolina has been on a pretty impressive run.  This upcoming Saturday we play for teh South Carolina AAA State Championship at Williams-Brice Stadium.

Go Cyclones and Go OAC!

[rscl70]

Regarding the crap that went on between certain TCNJ players and a group of fans yesterday let me just say this.  I didn't see everything or hear much so I don't know everything that happened.  But what I didn't see was a problem.  I did not see one TCNJ coach get in their kids faces about even looking or reacting to the crowd behind them.  There should be much bigger things going on, like a football game.  We all know what would happen if a Mount player would do something like that.  The second time it happened I was really surprised their coaches didn't react better towards their kids.

But kids are kids.  And that had to be a frustrating day yesterday for them.  What can I say about a handful of adults that week in and week out have to show how little class they have and bring the entire college down with them.  YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND YOU KNOW ME AND ITS TIME YOU GROW THE HELL UP! This isn't high school, you're not students, you're adults, so how about you start acting like it!

I know for a fact some of you received letters a few years back about shaping up or running the risk of losing your season tickets.  Well its time the college does just that.  At the very least move them way down to the south end away from the players and away from the visiting fans.  This is the same group that jeered Tom Arth when he got hurt a few years ago and it's the same group that week in and week out has to do the stupid childish "Start the bus" chant.  I mean this isn't high school and you are not 16 years old.  We don't need this crap by you at these games. Because you bring us all down.

Oh btw, these are the same guys that never saw Jim Ballard take a snap.  In other words, they are bandwagon fans that never saw Mount Union play before they won national championships.  And they will be the first gone when the winning stops.  It's time Mount Union College, to get them the heck away from where they are!

If the site would allow me I'd give you 1,000 karma points for this one!