FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[Jonny Utah]

I actually posted some of this a while back regarding that rule...

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5489.msg805161#msg805161

To give the MUC coach some credit, this is a rule that needs to be enforced a little more I think.  It is illegal to push a ball carrier (or any player) in the back to gain progress.  The refs dont want to make this call which is understandable, but the MUC coach might have told the refs about the pushing before and he might have not gotten the call after that.

Bottom line, it is illegal and could be considered cheating to push an offensive player to gain an advantage.  Sometimes these refs do need a little mouthfull if they arent doing their job.  

Again, I dont know if the MUC coach even said anything, and I didnt notice it that much on that play anyway.

In the end, I think if MUC really had one weakness it is their size.  WW was bigger and faster on defense and I thought that was one of the key factors in this game.  (besides the turnovers)

[JT]

I think Keith and I both agree -- I know I agree -- that that is a touchdown without the assist. He was definitely moving forward when the assist came.

Live I though he was in regardless. Upon replay, he was going in anyway.

[CNU85]

I actually posted some of this a while back regarding that rule...

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5489.msg805161#msg805161

To give the MUC coach some credit, this is a rule that needs to be enforced a little more I think.
Bottom line, it is illegal   Sometimes these refs do need a little mouthfull if they arent doing their job.  

Good points. Here's another way to look at it.....eliminate the rule. If it's not being enforced, then do away with it. Sometimes refs do need mouthfuls.....but in the confines of the game. If players see a coach lose control, it's over. I saw confusing things on the MUC sidelines. All but one of the coaches were in control, trying to keep spirits up, positive thoughts and words, no panic. Very nicely done. Then this one butthead coach was going off all game at the refs, losing control, yelling and screaming, walking on to the field on more than one instance. I remember thinking, "Coach K needs to get this guy under wraps before any panic sets in with the players". Credit to most of the players for not folowing that guy's lead.

Overall MUC looked impressive as far as attitudes and actions in defeat. As far as I saw, only 2 folks on the MUC sideine/field self destructed - the asst coach and #1.

[Jonny Utah]

I actually posted some of this a while back regarding that rule...

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5489.msg805161#msg805161

To give the MUC coach some credit, this is a rule that needs to be enforced a little more I think.
Bottom line, it is illegal   Sometimes these refs do need a little mouthfull if they arent doing their job.  

Good points. Here's another way to look at it.....eliminate the rule. If it's not being enforced, then do away with it. Sometimes refs do need mouthfuls.....but in the confines of the game. If players see a coach lose control, it's over. I saw confusing things on the MUC sidelines. All but one of the coaches were in control, trying to keep spirits up, positive thoughts and words, no panic. Very nicely done. Then this one butthead coach was going off all game at the refs, losing control, yelling and screaming, walking on to the field on more than one instance. I remember thinking, "Coach K needs to get this guy under wraps before any panic sets in with the players". Credit to most of the players for not folowing that guy's lead.

Overall MUC looked impressive as far as attitudes and actions in defeat. As far as I saw, only 2 folks on the MUC sideine/field self destructed - the asst coach and #1.

You are right.

But I think its a good rule, but most teams don't specifically tell their runningbacks to push the runner and the pile.  But Im sure there are some coaches that do tell their backs to illegally push the runner knowing that the refs never call it. 

As I pointed out in that earlier link, the Coast Guard coaches were very upset after the Curry game when Curry would put big linemen in the backfield on short yardage and goaline situations to push the pile foward. 

[Spence]

I think Keith and I both agree -- I know I agree -- that that is a touchdown without the assist. He was definitely moving forward when the assist came.

We'll never know, really. Usually when the ball is snapped and you immediately get knocked backward you don't get it, because by the time you get your momentum back, other guys have shown up. Unless of course, your RB gives you a push to help you regain momentum more quickly.

Tape doesn't tell the tale, IMO, because it doesn't show, and can't show, how fast Jones would have gotten going forward again -- or if he would have gotten going forward again -- after he was knocked backward.

My first look was that he was stopped, then Beaver's push got him going again. I haven't seen a replay, and won't walk a mile to do so. I don't think the replay could tell you much about a situation like that.

I understood why Vince Kehres came unglued. If a player went after a ref like that, I'd say it was totally out of line. But coaches jaw at and yell at officials all game. To me, what he did is the equivalent of a basketball coach getting a technical foul or a baseball coach getting tossed: not good, usually, but not some inexcusably awful thing.

Congrats to Whitewater...wish we could know how it would have turned out if the correct call had been made.

[Tags]

wish we could know how it would have turned out if the correct call had been made.

I think I can help with that:

10-7= 3

So it's only a 3 point loss if the TD didn't happen.

[runyr]

Good, succinct summary of the game yesterday.  I'm sure more will be said, but ric hits the highlights here:
http://www.mtunionfootball.com/main.htm

[formerd3db]

Come on, Spence, you're stretching it a bit.  Of course, coaches yell and scream at officials all the time (we've all done it), however, it is unexcusable to walk all the way out onto the field like that.  I know of very few coaches, if any, that would approve of one of their assistants of such action (and I doubt Kehres liked it either).  As for the TD, it did not affect the outcome of the game.  Officials don't call and/or enforce alot of rules/actions that they should all the time (kneepads above knees, offensive linemen holding on endaround plays - if you want to argue the "pushed TD" call, then one could do the same for Mount's TD which was "off tackle-around end" in which all three linemen were holding UWW players).  For sure, your discussion is a legit discussion, but that's the way it goes in these games, (and even instant reply, of which I am a supporter of, doesn't always help - example Delaware's TD reversed vs. Appal. St. when it should not have been reversed). - again, that call wasn't a factor in Mount's loss.  

[Jonny Utah]

Am I wrong in thinking that Nick Parr for Mt. Union might have deserved some AA recognition?  I thought he was AA caliber.....

[DutchFan2004]

I actually posted some of this a while back regarding that rule...

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5489.msg805161#msg805161

To give the MUC coach some credit, this is a rule that needs to be enforced a little more I think.  It is illegal to push a ball carrier (or any player) in the back to gain progress.  The refs dont want to make this call which is understandable, but the MUC coach might have told the refs about the pushing before and he might have not gotten the call after that.

Bottom line, it is illegal and could be considered cheating to push an offensive player to gain an advantage.  Sometimes these refs do need a little mouthfull if they arent doing their job.  

Again, I dont know if the MUC coach even said anything, and I didnt notice it that much on that play anyway.

In the end, I think if MUC really had one weakness it is their size.  WW was bigger and faster on defense and I thought that was one of the key factors in this game.  (besides the turnovers)

You are correct that that is a violation.  But I think from the way that the game had been called all day that you knew that it would not be called.  They were not calling obvious holding penalties (on both teams) so to call a penalty on something that is rarely or ever called.  To use that as an excuse to blow up on the refs is none.  Running on the field and yelling that it is bull$h:t is horrible IMO.  He got a fifteen yard penalty he is lucky that they didn't eject him.  IMO showed very little character and was very classless. 

[downtown48]

Good points. Here's another way to look at it.....eliminate the rule. If it's not being enforced, then do away with it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Rediculous rule that never gets called anyway.  Short of lifting a player up and throwing him in, ala Refrigerator Perry, who cares if the ball carrier gets pushed in by a couple of guys.  No one seems to have a problem when 8 defensive guys push the ball carrier 10 yards into the backfield...

[MUC Fan]

Congratulations to Wisconsin-Whitewater for a great game yesterday.  They definitely earned their first Stagg Bowl title.  After watching Mount's defense all season, I never thought in my wildest dreams that a running back could end up with that many rushing yards in one game against them.  What a way to cap your college career, player of the year and then winning the national championship.  It doesn't get much better than that.

Congrats also to this senior class from Mount Union.  I know the loss yesterday will sting for some time, but when you look back at your career, you will have many fond memories.  Two National Championships and one National Runner-Up.  The other season was getting beaten in the National Semi-Final game.  The 2005 season was very special since you lost a regular season game to Ohio Northern.  Many of us (me included) thought the season was over, but you bounced back and won the National Championship.  Best wishes in your future endeavors and thanks again for quite a ride these past four years.  

[pradierguy]

Just got back from Salem without #10  .  Always next year. But I don't want to forget about 2007. With or without a National Championship we saw an excellent team. I went home last night so upset for the seniors. They gave their heart and souls to this program. All of them are on to bigger and better things as we have seen their GPA's etc. Hopefully Pierre can fix his issue of "I'm the best one out there so you all should let me run all over you" attitude because it certainly won't fly on Sundays and I want to see him play on Sundays.

As for VK, that was unacceptable.. he looked like he did back in his playing days when he was out there on the field lol. It was a shame he reacted like that, but 20/20 hindsight is perfect.


On to UWW. WOW. I was impressed. You guys deserved the win because you played EVERY play like it was the last. I have the upmost respect for all those included in the program there. (#24 was a bit cocky for me, but this is coming from a guy who really likes that #1 MUC guy)


The underclassmen (Kmic, Micheli, etc) have time to let this fester. They will learn from this and certainly be back next year. The loss last night reminded me so much of the ONU loss when everything seemed to turn around for that team. However, we will miss the seniors so so much.

Thank you all Mounties, Warhawks, and D-III fans out there. It was an excellent season and I cannot wait for next year.


ON MOUNT!!!!

[Jonny Utah]

I actually posted some of this a while back regarding that rule...

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5489.msg805161#msg805161

To give the MUC coach some credit, this is a rule that needs to be enforced a little more I think.  It is illegal to push a ball carrier (or any player) in the back to gain progress.  The refs dont want to make this call which is understandable, but the MUC coach might have told the refs about the pushing before and he might have not gotten the call after that.

Bottom line, it is illegal and could be considered cheating to push an offensive player to gain an advantage.  Sometimes these refs do need a little mouthfull if they arent doing their job.  

Again, I dont know if the MUC coach even said anything, and I didnt notice it that much on that play anyway.

In the end, I think if MUC really had one weakness it is their size.  WW was bigger and faster on defense and I thought that was one of the key factors in this game.  (besides the turnovers)

You are correct that that is a violation.  But I think from the way that the game had been called all day that you knew that it would not be called.  They were not calling obvious holding penalties (on both teams) so to call a penalty on something that is rarely or ever called.  To use that as an excuse to blow up on the refs is none.  Running on the field and yelling that it is bull$h:t is horrible IMO.  He got a fifteen yard penalty he is lucky that they didn't eject him.  IMO showed very little character and was very classless. 

Im not saying he should have ran on the field like he did.  But he did have the right to be angry if it was like I explained it.

[Jonny Utah]

Good points. Here's another way to look at it.....eliminate the rule. If it's not being enforced, then do away with it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Rediculous rule that never gets called anyway.  Short of lifting a player up and throwing him in, ala Refrigerator Perry, who cares if the ball carrier gets pushed in by a couple of guys.  No one seems to have a problem when 8 defensive guys push the ball carrier 10 yards into the backfield...

It is a hard rule to enforce.  I would limit calling it I think to just running backs pushing quartrbacks on sneaks abnd/or obvious hands to the back push by a big olineman on a running back.