FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[SaintsFAN]

At NJCU in mens basketball Coach Brown always set the team goal to make the postseason, they have done this for 20 some years straight.  He made the final four twice but did not win it all.  The graduation rate was horrendous at the school when he took over.  When he retired before this season he had raised it to about 80% which is good for a state college.  If you tracked the former players, many who took longer than six years to graduate it is much higher.  He was a success as a coach because his kids went to school, were held to higher standards than the NCAA mandated and to higher behavioral standards than the college mandated.  Many of his former players are coaches, teachers or successful in life.  He also gets on the case of former players who did not graduate everytime he sees them asking them when they are going to finish their degrees.  He has former players coming to see him all the time.  He knows their children, he knows the students and former students who were not basketball players and he knows our children and treats everyone with dignity and respect.

To me that is a successful program.

I agree 100%.

Except that its New Joiysey....just kidding Knightstalker.  That is a very good accomplishment.  Huge even.

[Small but Slow]

I've received a lot of hype about the AAFL from UF contacts and agree that its hard to get excited about it.  The USFL had big $$$, big hype, big names, and some big talent and it didn't make it.  I might pay attention to it a bit more if it was comprised more of small school guys and maybe some big school guys who didn't get their shot in college due to injury or other issues.  Instead of guys who had their shots and couldn't cut it in the NFL.  Don't expect any Reggie White's, Jim Kelly's, or Herschel Walker's from this AAFL.  I can't see Chris Leak, Peter Warrick, or Eric Crouch busting their tails to win without a payday coming. They had their shots and all washed out.

[Knightstalker]

At NJCU in mens basketball Coach Brown always set the team goal to make the postseason, they have done this for 20 some years straight.  He made the final four twice but did not win it all.  The graduation rate was horrendous at the school when he took over.  When he retired before this season he had raised it to about 80% which is good for a state college.  If you tracked the former players, many who took longer than six years to graduate it is much higher.  He was a success as a coach because his kids went to school, were held to higher standards than the NCAA mandated and to higher behavioral standards than the college mandated.  Many of his former players are coaches, teachers or successful in life.  He also gets on the case of former players who did not graduate everytime he sees them asking them when they are going to finish their degrees.  He has former players coming to see him all the time.  He knows their children, he knows the students and former students who were not basketball players and he knows our children and treats everyone with dignity and respect.

To me that is a successful program.

I agree 100%.

Coach Brown is looked upon by the NJCU community much the same way the MUC community looks upon coach Kehres.

[Spence]

I was right, I wasted my breath.

You say you are a lot of things, Spence, but you are only one: Stand-offish.

You want others to consider your opinions and ideas, but you are unwilling to reciprocate.

Goodbye.

Heck all I wanted is someone to support their opinion or idea re: the original statement that Wiese stunted the team's growth this year by not playing the backup QB last year, and by extension was some kind of dummy.

[Spence]

Yes,congrats RC.There is nothing quite like father-daughter love,it is something special.Spence...Coach Siriani has raised the bar at WJU.I wish some WJU people would weigh in on this;so this will be it, but..their last coach was dying to leave and interviewing with what seemed like every college in the U.S.Unless I'm mistaken ,the program has not had as high as ranked teams as they have had under Coach Siriani.

You're just misinformed.

Let me know when he gets them to the national championship game, like they did twice under the previous coach.

W&J has always been good. They win 80% of the time over the past 25 years. Sirianni has the best record of any coach they've ever had, but look at who they're playing! Their non-conference schedule is pathetic. Oberlin? Hanover? They played a couple good teams in 06, and lost to Salisbury. 07 it was back to the cupcakes, and losing to 8 seed NC Wesleyan was the result. I used to cover schools in their conference and we're talking about like 6th/7th place in the OAC. I-AA and D-II just kills their ability to recruit the talent you need to compete in D-III IMO.

Programs like W&J are measured by what they do in the postseason (not just making it, they make it almost every year no matter who the coach is), and under Sirianni W&J hasn't improved from what Banaszak did; both have 3 playoff wins, and both had 3 in 4 years (since Sirianni didn't get one this year). Sirianni benefitted from playing South Region teams (weak) in all 3 of the wins.

W&J won 10 playoff games in a 4 years stretch from 92-95 under Luckhardt before falling back in the late 90s. But Banaszak rebuilt the program to at least a playoff program, if not the title contending program Luckhardt built over the course of a decade. Banaszak left the program better than he found it. So far, Sirianni hasn't been able to further improve on that.

IMO the only time W&J was good enough to make the playoffs out of the OAC was 92-94.

W&J football = Wooster baseball. Lots of regular season wins, not a heckuva lot of postseason success.

So by the measure of other coaches and Presidents in D3 Siriani looks damn good.After all,other D3 coaches rank his teams highly as compared with themselves.When he was hired, their Prez said he wanted to bring stability to the program,and he did.Insult me if you must but I'm not getting into a dick measuring contest.It would ruin my reputation.

I'll be interested to see if you get a benching and a talking to for using that word. I did.

So now you are the expert on how W&J measures their football program.  That they feel they are a failure if they do not win playoff games?  Is there no value of keeping a program that he took over at a high level at that same high level for a continuos peiod of time.  Is there not the chance that the administation of W&J cares more about other contributions the football team makes as well as wins and losses.  Like good student conduct, leadership, good relations for alumni (and a base to help raise funds), keeping enrollment at a stable level overall  for the college.

Seems to me you have appointed yourself judge and jury of what is important to W&J and if you had any reason to be a W&J expeert I would give you some credit but it seems like you just have a big mouth and a penchant for making a  bad argument and then continuing to back up your bad argument.  I guess it proably the fault of all the MUC fans on this board that causes your problems.

Wow you are just looking for something to argue with. If Sirianni did all those things not related to wins and losses but went 2-8 for 4 straight years, do you think he'd be more  likely, less likely or just as likely to have a job?

That's the only relevant question, really. The answer is obvious. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother buying a scoreboard and could support some music scholarships or something.

[Spence]

College coaches work under the direction of the president and board of directors of the college.  As long as the suits are pleased with the coach's performance he will keep his job.  Nothing against W&J or the PAC, but the football program's tradition and level of competition both lead to the success they have achieved.  They win the games on their schedule every year and are awarded with a playoff berth.  The purpose of any college is not to win championships.  Inability to "win the big one" is not going to cause any DIII coach to lose his job as long as his players graduate and represent the school in a manner which satisfies the president.  My guess is Coach Siriani is satisfying his administration's objectives well enough to maintain employment.

I don't disagree with any of that. It doesn't really speak to what people were saying about how great a job he's doing there, but I agree with you on what you just said.

[Spence]

At NJCU in mens basketball Coach Brown always set the team goal to make the postseason, they have done this for 20 some years straight.  He made the final four twice but did not win it all.  The graduation rate was horrendous at the school when he took over.  When he retired before this season he had raised it to about 80% which is good for a state college.  If you tracked the former players, many who took longer than six years to graduate it is much higher.  He was a success as a coach because his kids went to school, were held to higher standards than the NCAA mandated and to higher behavioral standards than the college mandated.  Many of his former players are coaches, teachers or successful in life.  He also gets on the case of former players who did not graduate everytime he sees them asking them when they are going to finish their degrees.  He has former players coming to see him all the time.  He knows their children, he knows the students and former students who were not basketball players and he knows our children and treats everyone with dignity and respect.

To me that is a successful program.

If they went 4-20 would that still be a successful program?

If you say no, and I presume you would, then you accept that wins and losses matter. That's why they have a scoreboard and keep stats and all of that.

Applied to W&J, clearly they're not running a recreational program. If they were, they wouldn't have the success they have over a century of playing college football, and they would have hired someone that would just bring in players rather than hiring from the most successful football program in D-III. Ergo, wins and losses must matter to them. I suspect if one coach would have been able to somehow 100% guarantee a national title, that coach would have gotten the job over one that couldn't, ceteris paribus.

[Spence]

I was right, I wasted my breath.

You say you are a lot of things, Spence, but you are only one: Stand-offish.

You want others to consider your opinions and ideas, but you are unwilling to reciprocate.

Goodbye.

I only disagree with someone's opinion when that opinion is wrong.

I agreed with the person that said that Capital's former coach was a great coach, I agreed with the person that said Sirianni was doing a good enough job to stay employed and generally keep the bosses content.

Because they were correct. Opinions do not all share equal value. Some are more valid than others, others are not valid at all.

[reality check]

And some people think their opinions are doubly important since they quote and respond to the same post twice with two seperate thoughts.  I've never seen someone who has such a man-crush on himself.




Can we vote now to ship Marietta to the NCAC and take back Hiram???

[skunks_sidekick]

RC!  Congrats my fellow father!  You are SO screwed in such a sweet way!

Spence.........I know more people that attended Marietta when their baseball program really mattered than you will ever know in your life.  Son.......my advice to you is to drink heavily.....and GO AWAY!

I am attending the Donny Hertler North Canton Coaches clinic this Saturday and LK is doing a breakout session on the 2-minute offense.  I think I need to ask him is that the offense they run pretty much 90% of the time.   

[Spence]

RC!  Congrats my fellow father!  You are SO screwed in such a sweet way!

Spence.........I know more people that attended Marietta when their baseball program really mattered than you will ever know in your life.  Son.......my advice to you is to drink heavily.....and GO AWAY!

Funny...all this talk about how it's all about graduating players and being nice and blah blah blah and now it's "back when their baseball program mattered." I guess that means that the kids that are in it now getting their educations and learning life lessons are irrelevant? Cognitive disconnect.

"Son" is what an older person calls someone younger than them when they want their way regardless of how much or little sense their way makes. It's a way of leveraging age and marginalizing the opposite, often at the expense of merit.

[HScoach]

I was right, I wasted my breath.

You say you are a lot of things, Spence, but you are only one: Stand-offish.

You want others to consider your opinions and ideas, but you are unwilling to reciprocate.

Goodbye.

Heck all I wanted is someone to support their opinion or idea re: the original statement that Wiese stunted the team's growth this year by not playing the backup QB last year, and by extension was some kind of dummy.

The fact that you need to be convinced that getting your back-up QB some experience is useful, proves our opinion of your endless drivle.  Getting some playing experience for any young player, especially your QB in a QB-based offense, is ALWAYS useful.   Whether it be 10 plays or a 100.  Obviously you don't understand the basics of learning, sports, or life for that matter. 

What other obvious facts do you need help with?  Gravity?  Sun rises in the east, sets in the west?  Fire is hot?  Hillary is a pyschopath?

I will give you credit for one thing though, it isn't often that the MUC, ONU and Cap folks all stand on the same side of a discussion.  So congrats.  You made all of us agree that you're a longwinded idiot that has an overelevated value of selfworth.

[Small but Slow]

Given the tradition of the program and competition level of the PAC, if W&J had a 2-8 season red flags would probably go up to the administration that something is awry and the coaching staff would probably come under some scrutiny.  A second poor season would indicate a trend.  I doubt the school would, at least publicly admit, that they would fire a coach for wins & losses, but could find another cliche, such as "lack of direction," "differences in philosophy" or some other bogus reason to fire him.  Not that I can see that scenario occurring.

[D3 Poster]

Can we vote now to ship Marietta to the NCAC and take back Hiram???

Hey, Marietta's gone more years vested in the OAC than ONU.  My vote is to  ship ONU out (HCAC or GLIAC, where did you come from?) and bring back Witt.

While we're at it...ship out JCU & Wilmington in exchange for Wooster and Denison.  We'd get that match up every year that Wooster really 'wants' with Mount 

[reality check]

I just know that the NCAC guys are real academically-oriented and since certain Etta guys like Spence enjoy measuring their intelligence (and body parts) by typing such big words that it might be a natural transition to the NCAC for the Pios.  And I do apologize, I didn't think Marietta had been a real member of the conference in football terms since the mid-90's.  My bad.