FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[HScoach]

Sorry to barge into English class, but the results for week 6 and the spreads for week 7 have been posted. 

[Pat Coleman]

PrestoSports "LiveStats" SUX!!

Eighteen minutes into the game and the error message is:

"We are unable to laod the game information.  Retrying..."

Sounds like an muc.edu issue, not a Presto issue. Plenty of other schools use Presto.

[reality check]

Adrian (Ex D3)

Why, if you're familiar with Division III, stoop to such a level as to suggest MUC is getting away with something shady?  That accusation is founded on nothing of substance and borderline slanderous.  Mount Union is lucky to have anyone fill that single game that is open from year to year.  It's all they can do to find someone from D-III to fill Week One.  It would be different if MUC was fighting off the prospects and picking the easiest team seeking a game.  They've had to look as far away as Missouri, New York and Virginia in recent years to fill the slot.  I'm not from MUC but I'm smart enough to understand their situation.  If we had 7 schools in the OAC and MUC could schedule more at-large games, it would be a different story.  The fact of the matter is that they have one open game every year.  That game is limited to Week One or Two on the schedule.  There's not much flexibility to work with there.  And realistically speaking, they'd spend thousands to travel to some of the D-II's or non-championship Division I's because the local choices want nothing to do with Mount for fear of losing.  It's a tired argument and if you think those so-called "excuses" are "hogwash", then you're blind to the reality of the situation and have credibility in this discussion akin to the fly-by-night posters that know nothing about Division III in general and simply stir the pot for the sake of reaction, only to disappear once they successfully spread their narrow-minded drivel.  As a D-III alum, I'd hope you were better than that.  I'm probably wrong.

[seventiesraider]

Think about what those kids could be doing if they would play four years somewhere else...

Most of them play four years, but a lot of them spend two years on a JV team that would beat half the teams in D3. Listening to the interview Larry K. did with Bruce Drennen last week, he spoke of the JV's more like a development squad, to keep kids busy while they grow up a little more and bulked up in  the weight room. It is one of the "secrets" of Mount Union football, that they, like Division I play mostly Juniors and Seniors. In D3, the competition is playing kids in all four years, who haven't had the chance to spend two years getting to know each other.

I kind of felt bad for Capital today, but that probably carried over from Friday night, when I watched Mogadore take on a Windham team that only dressed 20 kids. Our second string running back had over a hundred yards and two td's midway through  the 1st quarter, on a field that looked like my back yard. Really sad.

[reality check]

seventies

In today's Division I, kids don't often play together for two plus years.  With early exits to the NFL draft and whatnot, it's almost the opposite of what you described. 

For example, Ohio State started 2 FR, 6 SO, 6 JR and 8 SR.  More upperclassmen yes, but lots of youngsters in the mix. 

Ohio Northern, on the other hand, started 0 FR, 6 SO, 7 JR and 9 SR today.  And we've seen how much success my Bears have had so far this season with all these experienced players...

[JK]

They may play all four years, but how many of them see significant varsity time in those four years?

JV time is important.  There is no doubt that Capital (and Otterbein for that matter) have improved tremedously over the last few years because the young guys get to develop through game action in JV games instead of getting their first live action when they become varsity starters.  It's no coincidence that when Cap was bad in my day, we only had 65-70 players and had to play a lot of frosh & sophs.  The increase in numbers has led to the ability to play JV has led to them being more ready when they hit the big stage.

But still, why do kids go to MUC?  It's not to play JV.  It's the opportunity to be on a championship team, regardless of playing time.  Why does a Kmic, a kid from NW Ohio go to MUC instead of ONU or somewhere else?

Here is an example that just came to mind:
hscoach mentioned Cap needs a legit RB.  Reality and I had a discussion on Cap's lack of RB's in the Rocky era a week or so ago.  Imagine the difference if Trevor Bruney were Cap's starting TB...  (I would love to say Kmic, but I won't even go there...)  Bruney is MUC's 3rd TB (maybe 4th if Wray were healthy), rarely sees significant time, but probably would be the starter at Cap and would probably have a huge impact on a top D3 team.  Why does he go to MUC (aside from the Bruney connection)?  The ring(s).
(I know I am oversimplfying this, there are other considerations like the school itself, choice of academic programs, etc, but all 10 OAC schools are pretty close to one another academically and campus-wise I think).

Until MUC ceases to be a year in, year out national championship contender, or, hell, even if they just become "another/normal" national championship contender, kids are going to go there.  If they don't get their break at MUC and decide they can contribute elsewhere, they'll self correct later.  And, when there is no limit to how many kids you can have on the team, MUC will continue to stockpile kids like that, for that reason.  Those kids (like a Bruney) are going to be kept away from teams who could use them, even top D3 teams like Cap...
(not to mention a team like the nearest D3 college to MUC, Hiram, who would probably be a top half NCAC team with MUC's back-ups and 3rd stringers...)

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

MUC's run kind of reminds me of DI prior to the scholarship limits (I am not saying that MUC is giving scholarships).  Remember when Nebraska, Miami, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Michigan, OSU, etc. could have Blue Chip players 3 Deep at every position?  When one get's hurt or graduates, the next one steps up.  Now with a limit of 85 scholarships and more TV exposure, players are spreading out through the DI Ranks and there is more parity.

I'm not suggesting Roster Limits, just trying to identify a possible reason for the continuance of the streak.

[bushman]

Success breeds success     LK's program is now self sustaining.     On another note, Wooster lost so I guess we won't be seeing them in the near future.   

[HScoach]

JK,

You're correct that the success at MUC draws kids in, but the depth and reputation scares kids away too.  Kmic has said that he almost didn't come to Mount because he was afraid he wouldn't be good enough to ever see the field.  And Dan Larlham picked BM.....oops BW.....over Mount because of immediate playing time.  Could you imagine what LK's offense would have been with Larlham at QB instead of Bruney?  Yikes.  In general I agree with you, but MUC loses out on some great players too because of the reputation and depth.



And you're way over estimating the NCAC.  Mount's JV team would probably finish in the top 2 or 3 of the NCAC.

[ADL70]

Reality, campus-wise the big city (Cap, Ott, JCU, BW) v small town aspect may also play a role in where a kid chooses to play.

[purpled]

Over the years, especially since 1993, those kids who choose to play at Mount know the situation. You work hard and you must wait your turn. There are exceptions but you play JV ball, learn the system and then you better be ready. And what kid does not want to be part of a national title? LK has developed an assembly line of quality kids on and off the field...he looks for certain kids with the qualities he wants. As hscoach said, the program does scare some kids away as they want to play right away. But is that player putting himself first before the team and would LK really want that player on his team?

RUN NATE RUN!

[skunks_sidekick]

Purpled.....I hear you but I think you are bit off calling out a kid that chooses "himself over team" when deciding where to attend college.  At that point, it is ALL about the kid, and nothing about the team.  He has to make a decision as to where he thinks he fits in, and where he can have the best experience.  Now...we WANT him to pick Mount, but if he doesn't it's not a negative to his character.

[purpled]

Skunk,

I only meant with regards to playing football and not an education or anything else associated with the college experience.

[Small but Slow]

Hello MUC fans, I'm highly IMPRESSED by your program! I just read that the new WR is prolly better than Pierre is! Kmic seems to be on pace to a record-breaking season! Thank goodness you guys are in the OAC instead of the NJAC! I noticed other powerhouse programs has slipped a little over the years while MUC just keep on rollin! Something seems a little too good to be true ... even D1 teams go through bad seasons? Michigan, Penn State, Miami, Notre Dame even Florida State to name a few! How do MUC do it after all these years, hmmmm I wonder??? Well this is the point when I always ask "Why don't MUC put a D2-D1AA or even a lower tier D1A on their schedule if for no other reason than to use as a measuring stick? I've heard the excuses year after year (What do the D2-1AA-1A teams gain - Who would watch - Power rankings - Money allotment - travel expenses) but I think those excuses are HOGWASH! There is at least 1 team somewhere in this country that would play them as a favor to someone associated with the MUC program! TRUST ME, they have powerful friends on every level of college football! Heck, they just had a WR drafted to the NFL this year!
Good Luck beating the snot outta D3 teams this season MUC! ;o)

All critique of grammar aside, welcome to the continuing debate on how MUC has remained a D3 juggernaut for nearly 20 years. 
The DI programs you mentioned all met their downfalls for various reasons; coaches leaving, sanctions for recruiting violations, the coaches losing control of the players and a breakdown in discipline, or complacency in recruiting and preparation by the staff.  MUC has had only two head coaches, with like values and focus in the past nearly 50 years.  Strength, stability, and consistency are staples of their success.
Mount Union is a true DIII, non-scholarship school.  Athletics are a small part of the school environment, not the center of it, as they are at schools such as OSU, Florida, or Notre Dame.  Football players are students first, not pampered campus celebrities with academic support staff and an elevated status on campus.
MUC football has remained a DIII football power because the program is clean, the players know and understand their roles, and the coaching staff knows and follows policy and continues to be progressive in their approach and has adapted as the the program has grown.
As an outsider I understand how you can imagine MUC as some sort of outlaw football factory picking on the poor and weak DIII schools.  You are not the first to come along and hopefully, no the last to question LK's success.

[seventiesraider]

Sorry, my DI experience in the last 15 years as been more Akron and Kent State where turning Pro and leaving school early is more a dream than a reality.

My only direct DI experience was Nebraska in the sixties which was more like today's Pro camps, where walk on's barely got the time of day and local kids didn't  stand a chance against the Junior College transfers from California and New Jersey.

I've got kids now who go to Ashland or Walsh if Mount Union doesn't show a lot of interest. The chance of a ring still makes kids give up a lot. If they want to play right away, they go to JCU or BW.