FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[reality check]

rp

The biggest problem I have with you "flawless" plan is that you have it set in stone that CAP is in because they beat the other second place teams.  There is no second place tie-breaker according to my findings so there is nothing set in stone to say that CAP is 2a simply because they beat the "2b's".  In fact, I think ONU beating the first place team should count for something.  That is something neither CAP nor JCU can claim and so maybe that is worth something more than beating the second place teams.  Combine the fact that ONU beat the first place team and lost only to the second place teams is as equally impressive as CAP beating ONU and JCU.  Again, there's nothing in the books about putting one at-large team ahead of another with identical records.

And I don't necessarily back Toph on many things but on this occasion I will.  You didn't use your "better than" comment with the qualifier that it only means they're better that day.  You said "if A beats B, then A is better".  So his objection citing OTT and my objection citing ONU/MUC are valid.  Toph can't put things in your mouth but apparently he should predict what you mean to say in other cases.  That's pretty inconsistent.  Maybe instead of calling names and pointing fingers like a 3rd grader (you seem to be fond of the third grader analogy so I used it here), you could accept the fact that someone else has an opinion that doesn't match yours and doesn't have to.  I have a pretty good understanding of your point.  CAP should be the choice because they beat ONU and JCU.  I say CAP deserves nothing more for beating ONU and JCU than ONU deserves for beating Mount and not losing a game to a lesser opponent.  To coin your phrase, "Is that so hard to understand?"

[4u]

JK,
I am going to go out on a (very short) limb and guess that Pat may very well know just as much (if not more) about the DIVISION III FOOTBALL selection process than Mr. Gleason.  There is a clear underestimation of Pat that has taken place in your last post.  
4u

[l39eagle]

I have to echo DanT's sentiments in regard to the ONU/Wilmington game.  No stronger statement about the benefits of  college athletics can be made then what took place after that game.  For 2 teams to come together like they did is truly inspritational and for Wilmington to willingly sacrifice time that would be normally spent with their parents to join ONU and share in their grief is truly a classy and unselfish gesture.  Thanks to all from Wilmington.

[Toph]

4u-
Perhaps you are misunderstanding me.  I am not trying to be whiney or be a fanboy (I am certainly not arguing that JCU should be in the playoffs).  I disagree with the idea that Capital should be in the playoffs over other 8-2 teams (especially ONU) simply because they beat the other two 8-2 teams, and I don't think they will get in.  I only used Otterbein because that loss has seemingly been dismissed as an early season fluke, and to counter rp's point that if team A beats team B, team A is better (obviously, Otterbein is not a better team than Capital).  I'm sorry to hear that you haven't tuned in to WJCU's broadcasts, and I hope that changes 4u.

[reality check]

joelmama

If Osh Kosh wins at LAX (which they should do), they finish 8-2 as well and might be a less contested pick since there is no mess with other WIAC teams in second place.  Osh Kosh has the opportunity to be in the same position as ONU last year: alone in second place at 8-2 in a very well respected conference.  The advantage that Osh Kosh has though is that this year the playoff has 4 more spots than last year for ONU.

I am just saying Osh Kosh, if they win, could be an easy pick instead of one of the OAC's three 8-2 teams, and they could be shipped as a 7 or 8 seed to the North region.  Osh Kosh to Wabash is 330 miles.  Osh Kosh to Augustana is 275 miles.  Osh Kosh to North Central is 185 miles.  They wouldn't be handicapped geographically.  

Just another thought...

[e_lee]

reality check,

ONU should follow rules if they want to participate in the play-offs.

Toph,

How do head to head wins not matter?

[Pat Coleman]

Here it is...
I know you cited this in a reply soon after I posted.  Basically you said something to the effect that the OAC commissioner didn't have a clue as to what the tiebreaker is for, etc...

I didn't get that at all from the conversation.  Basically what I understood was that Mr. Gleason, who has been the commish of the OAC for a long time and thus I am sure understands the playoff selection process better than you or I put together, feels that the OAC #2 will get CONSIDERATION.  I also gathered that if someone on the selection committee, whom I am sure he knows several of them, asks his opinion of who, of the three 8-2 OAC teams tied for second, is the better of the three and should get MORE consideration, he will answer Capital based on the head to head.

That is all I gathered from those statements, not that the OAC is clueless...

Perhaps this is true, perhaps it's not. However, said longtime commissioner also told people in Alliance after the Mount Union loss that the NCAA was responsible for breaking a three-way tie for the league title. That simply is not true, and frankly, it hasn't even been close to true since 1998.

Then they ad-hoc a tiebreaker that is secret ballot of coaches.

So you tell me.

The point being this: The conference must choose who its automatic bid goes to. The NCAA committee has sole jurisdiction over choosing who it feels the best runner-up is. The conference has no say in that whatsoever.

[4u]

Toph (and anyone else)-
Let's assume on Saturday night that the group has one more spot open and only Mount has one of the seven spots in our region-- who would you propose the region select and why?

I am a JCU fan but my reasons tell me Capital is the choice,
4u

[l39eagle]

E  Lee

Thanks for your empathy and compassion towards ONU.  Pray that no team you support ever has to endure what these men from ONU have had to endure, particularly the seniors.

[e_lee]

l39eagle,

They broke rules.  They are paying for them.  I alsohope that no team I pull for has to go through what they have been through.

I also hope no team ever has to be on the wrong side of a lopsided score where the team winning goes for two to make it 50-0 at halftime.  I feel confident not wishing this upon anyone, because I have experienced it as a former Crusader. 

[onyxrook]

I hate to say this but for those arguing that Cap vs ONU vs JCU is essentially an equal argument it isn't.  If it comes to 8-2ness and there isn't an easier selection Cap will get in.  The committee has always valued late wins vs late losses.  As RC pointed out, Osh Kosh may finish 8-2 as a single second and I'd say the WIAC is an easier selection.  The WIAC can easily be argued to be of near if not the same caliber of conference. 
OAC pool C is Cap.  OAC won't get a pool C
We'll see what happens Saturday and Sunday.  I'm really tired of seeing this argument already

[l39eagle]

e_lee

..."they broke the rules. they are paying for them"...
And how exactly are they paying for them?  the loss of the D3 ntl.def.player of the year in the 3rd game, the loss to your crusaders, all not even relevant when you consider the loss of a 34 yr.old friend and coach.

    Go ahead and continue to villify ONU for something that happened "back in the day"if it makes you feel good or if it is your therapy, but get over it; Kaz is long gone and the program that Coach Paul is building is one of respect and class.  I know you don't want to hear that because it makes your ramblings very irrelevant pertaining to ONU.  go find someone else to bad-mouth.

[e_lee]

I didn't even bring up the loss of a coach, the news of which deeply saddened me as I know how important my coaches have been to me. That extends way beyond any petty football issue(which you correctly state pales in comparison to real life issues such as death).  It is offensive that you try to connect my disdain for ONU to the death of a beloved coach.

[JK]

Pat,

I don't know Mr. Gleason, and what I posted was third hand info, so I am not sure of any of it.  Hence my qualifing statement, "take this for what it is worth."

I'm sure Mr. Gleason knows a little bit about a few things, and I apologize if you or anyone misconstured my comment in my last post as a personal attack.  I have nothing but the utmost respect for both you and Mr. Gleason.

I guess we will see in a few weeks...

[reality check]

4u

Good question.  Well there's the IBC champ (Lakeland), the MIAA champ (?), the OAC champ (Mount), the CCIW champ (Augustana), the HCAC champ (MSJ), thew NCAC champ (Wabash), North Central as an at-large.

There are seven spots taken already.  The eight spot, in my opinion goes to the WIAC as an import, either as a one seed or an 8 seed.  So Whitewater or Osh Kosh gets my vote respectively.