FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[SaintsFAN]

With all due respect (because you are truly one of the few who commands it around here), you're wrong.  Reality Check embellished on a story a few weeks back and didn't have the guts to concede that he might be wrong when called on it.  And when I challenged him on his assertion, a few posters here had the audacity to say that he must be right because he's been here longer.  Talk about a load of garbage.

CS --

I know Reality Check personally from the years of posting and the weekend I spent with him back in October.  He's a quality guy (despite being a graduate of Chaminade-Julienne).  He has character and morals.  When he says something, I believe him.  Its not because I'm kissing his A$$, its because I know his background and saw a little bit of how he was raised because I've also spent time with his mother.  

I'm not saying you aren't a quality person, its just that I haven't had the chance to hang with you.  The time that I've spent with hscoach, hurfmuc, theaprof, skunks, skunkssidekick, mtfan and wesleydad have showed me they are also quality people.  If any of these guys said something on here --- I'd accept it as truth.  

Forgive the guys who have come to Reality Check's defense.. chances are they've also been able to hang with him and see the same things that I do in him.  

As far as the "defeatist attitude"--- I think you're right... to a certain extent.  Though I know Ohio Northern doesn't subscribe to this theory.  The reality is when a team plays MUC, not only are they facing a loss --- but they also get nicked up from the physicality of playing Mount Union.  This affects teams for the next week or two as substitutes are needed to step up.   This definitely affected ONU with their game against Otterbein in 2009.  

I also think it's kind of funny that you guys all jumped all over CS for his "starting off the season 0-1" comment.  I know that is a defeatist attitude, but when a team only has one loss in the conference in over 15 years, it is pretty much statistically true.  I don't know if in the long run it is beneficial for teams to get to play a team like MUC every year, but it surely does hurt the other 9 OAC teams' playoff chances.

I don't think moving MUC to independent is the best choice here --- MUC Athletics is more than just the football program and they have to consider whats best for all the sports.  But, if you were to look at --- I think you'd see that Mount Union would have trouble scheduling 10 opponents annually as an Independent.  Thats problem #1.   I played 4 years for an Independent and we weren't even close to being on the level of MUC, but we had some crazy scheduling because it was so tough to fill 10 games.  We ended up playing teams like Morehead State, who still had scholarship athletes (yeah that was fun--being their Homecoming victim in 1998) and the teams before me played AT Montana, which was an absolute bloodbath.  

[jam40jeff]

As far as the "defeatist attitude"--- I think you're right... to a certain extent.  Though I know Ohio Northern doesn't subscribe to this theory.  The reality is when a team plays MUC, not only are they facing a loss --- but they also get nicked up from the physicality of playing Mount Union.  This affects teams for the next week or two as substitutes are needed to step up.   This definitely affected ONU with their game against Otterbein in 2009.  

I think you were replying to me in this paragraph, so I'll respond.  I didn't mean that the team's have a defeatist attitude.  I was saying that we fans (especially on this board) may have this attitude because, as much as we want our teams to win every game, we have to know deep down that the chances are slim to none of winning the game against MUC.  As far as the players, as I have said before, I know someone who currently plays for JCU, and they realistically thought they had a chance at taking MUC down, even this year.  And that's great for them for having that attitude, every player should have that attitude about every game, although we all saw how well it ended up working out.

I also think it's kind of funny that you guys all jumped all over CS for his "starting off the season 0-1" comment.  I know that is a defeatist attitude, but when a team only has one loss in the conference in over 15 years, it is pretty much statistically true.  I don't know if in the long run it is beneficial for teams to get to play a team like MUC every year, but it surely does hurt the other 9 OAC teams' playoff chances.

I don't think moving MUC to independent is the best choice here --- MUC Athletics is more than just the football program and they have to consider whats best for all the sports.  But, if you were to look at --- I think you'd see that Mount Union would have trouble scheduling 10 opponents annually as an Independent.  Thats problem #1.   I played 4 years for an Independent and we weren't even close to being on the level of MUC, but we had some crazy scheduling because it was so tough to fill 10 games.  We ended up playing teams like Morehead State, who still had scholarship athletes (yeah that was fun--being their Homecoming victim in 1998) and the teams before me played AT Montana, which was an absolute bloodbath.  
[/quote]

I agree.  I don't think MUC going independent is the best choice either.  I was just saying that (in football) it I think it is a hinderance to be playing in the same conference as MUC.  If the other 9 teams all decided to leave the OAC tomorrow, I would think MUC would have a VERY hard time finding 9 other teams in the country willing to be in a conference with them.

[jaypeter]

If I offend some, so be it.

But will you be offended by someone who's easily offended?   

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

If I offend some, so be it.

But will you be offended by someone who's easily offended?   

Nah, I am over getting emotional about a message board.  I am just going to play it cool like KC Keeler  8)

[Toph]

CarrollStreaks,

You're wrong.  Mount doesn't need to go independent.  They need to move up a division or join the MAC.  At the very least schedule Akron or Kent or YSU. 

Obviously that's an institutional decision, and one I believe the school probably could not afford at this time.  It's debatable that Kent and Akron, large state schools, even belong in Division I-A. 

I know you're being facetious because that's something you've heard before, but it would be nice if someone had the fortitude to legitimately discuss this.

OK, I didn't think I'd have time to post today, but I have a second and I do have to respond to this.  Here's the problem, you want someone to "legitimately discuss" something that is completely unrealistic.  First and foremost, Mount Union has more sports than football (I feel like I have to remind people of that every year), and if I'm not mistaken, when you're in the OAC you're all in for every sport.  Beyond that, Mount Union would have a near impossible time scheduling 10 games a year.  It's not like they have an unlimited travel budget for road games, and how many teams are going to be willing to travel to Alliance to play them?

You can't have a legitimate discussion about an illegitimate topic.  

Your logic is flawed anyway.  You said, "[OAC teams] have done pretty well [in the playoffs], but have any of them reached a level of a program like Whitewater?  A consistent challenger to Mount Union?  I don't think so."

That no OAC team has "consistently" challenged Mount Union is not Mount Union's fault.  Blame the other programs.  By the way, I take issue with your claim anyway.  In recent years, perhaps, no one has "consistently" challenged Mount (beyond a year or two), but these stats are worth comparing.

Here's Whitewater:
2005 - L 35-28
2006 - L 35-16
2007 - W 31-21
2008 - L 31-26

Here's JCU:
1998 - L 21-14
1999 - L 57-51 (3 OT)
2000 - L 41-31
2001 - L 33-30
2002 - L 35-16 (with an injury to Arth and a "fumble" that killed 2nd half momentum...you guys knew I'd bring that up  )
          L 59- 17 in playoffs
2003- L 34-16

Sure, Whitewater has one win in four tries...but JCU was more or less right there for half a decade.  The problem was once the Streaks lost to Mount Union they always seemed to lose focus down the stretch.

[jam40jeff]

Not many other conferences can say that if their runner up only loses to the conference champion can still have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.

Almost every other conference.  Only one 9-1 conference runner-up missed the playoffs this year.  Wabash made it.  W&J made it.  Any of those teams would have lost another game if MUC was in their conference, and thus not made the playoffs.  I'm not saying this is MUC's fault.  I'm not saying MUC should move up a division.  I'm not saying that MUC should be ousted from the OAC.  I'm just saying that CarrollStreaks has a point when he says it may not be best for the other 9 teams as it makes it that much harder for them to make them playoffs (and means they're fighting for 0 or 1 playoff spots), even if there's nothing they can do about it.

[reality check]

I appreciate everyone coming to my defense but I'm over the whole thing.  

Like the Tooth Fairy, Bigfoot and questionable community leadership scholarships for Dayton Flyers football players, CarrollStreaks is all made up and a figment of everyone's imagination.

[SaintsFAN]

I appreciate everyone coming to my defense but I'm over the whole thing.  

Believe me, it was hard to do.  


kirasdad,

where did you find that picture of KC Keeler??   Nice..

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

Not many other conferences can say that if their runner up only loses to the conference champion can still have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.

Almost every other conference.  Only one 9-1 conference runner-up missed the playoffs this year.  Wabash made it.  W&J made it.  Any of those teams would have lost another game if MUC was in their conference, and thus not made the playoffs.

Not if the other team they lost to was not in their conference.

There are 32 Playoff spots and 23 go to AQs.  Thus if all 23 conferences had runner ups that were one loss teams then all would make it (or have an equal chance)?  No, but conferences like the MIAC, WIAC, CCIW, and OAC have a leg up (IMO) to get one of the 6 spots left due to the reputation of the competition in those conferences.

[Raider 68]

I appreciate everyone coming to my defense but I'm over the whole thing. 

Believe me, it was hard to do. 


kirasdad,

where did you find that picture of KC Keeler??   Nice..

Is KC wheeler still at Delaware St? Have not followed them or him, but maybe they will be in the D2 playoffs!

[SaintsFAN]

I appreciate everyone coming to my defense but I'm over the whole thing. 

Believe me, it was hard to do. 


kirasdad,

where did you find that picture of KC Keeler??   Nice..

Is KC wheeler still at Delaware St? Have not followed them or him, but maybe they will be in the D2 playoffs!

I believe they are I-AA, sir.

[Raider 68]

I always thought he was more a wheeler than a keeler!

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

I'm just saying that CarrollStreaks has a point when he says it may not be best for the other 9 teams as it makes it that much harder for them to make them playoffs (and means they're fighting for 0 or 1 playoff spots), even if there's nothing they can do about it.

One more sorry.  My students are typing essays about cyber-bullying (relevant topic ) today so I have more time to post.

I would have to say Most conferences are fighting for 1 playoff spot every year.  There are only 32 spots, 23 Pool A bids and 3 Pool B bids.  That leaves 6 Spots for the rest of the teams.  If you want to go, win your conference.  Unless you are in one of the aforementioned conferences (OAC, WIAC, CCIW, MIAC...) and then you most likely will get in.

[jam40jeff]

I'm just saying that CarrollStreaks has a point when he says it may not be best for the other 9 teams as it makes it that much harder for them to make them playoffs (and means they're fighting for 0 or 1 playoff spots), even if there's nothing they can do about it.

One more sorry.  My students are typing essays about cyber-bullying (relevant topic ) today so I have more time to post.

I would have to say Most conferences are fighting for 1 playoff spot every year.  There are only 32 spots, 23 Pool A bids and 3 Pool B bids.  That leaves 6 Spots for the rest of the teams.  If you want to go, win your conference.  Unless you are in one of the aforementioned conferences (OAC, WIAC, CCIW, MIAC...) and then you most likely will get in.

Most teams can go 9-1 and still make the playoffs in other conferences.  Of course, in most other conferences, many OAC teams would have a legitimate shot at winning the conference.

I don't know if everyone is trying to justify their hatred of CS by disagreeing with everything he says, or feel that I am trying to say MUC should be ousted from the OAC (which I'm not).  But it's hard for me to believe that others couldn't feel that being in the OAC with MUC makes it MUCH harder for non-MUC OAC teams to make the playoffs than just about any other team in the country.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

I don't know if everyone is trying to justify their hatred of CS by disagreeing with everything he says, or feel that I am trying to say MUC should be ousted from the OAC (which I'm not).  But it's hard for me to believe that others couldn't feel that being in the OAC with MUC makes it MUCH harder for non-MUC OAC teams to make the playoffs than just about any other team in the country.

Nothing against CS on this.  I am just saying that by going 9-1 in the OAC, it is Almost like winning another conference and a team is almost guaranteed a playoff spot.  Also, playing MUC each year should give the other schools in the OAC more insight on what it takes to be Champions (like UWW scheduling MUC prior to their run, and SJF as well) and a better advantage on how to get there.