FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[BashDad]

Huh?

This is basically the main point of the article:

"According to another NCAA study, from 1982 to 2007 the number of Division III athletes increased from 85,521 to 158,621 - a growth rate of 85 percent."

And this is how MSJ is referenced:

"Mount St. Joseph coach Rod Huber said building a program is a process - one that places a premium on numbers.

'When we were 0-10, we took anybody who would walk and chew gum,' he said. '... I tell kids all the time, if you really love this game, there's a Division III program for you. It might not be Mount St. Joseph. But there are places out there, like we were 10 years ago, that are just looking for bodies - anybody who wants to play.'"

[seventiesraider]

I thought the point was "more and more student athletes flocking to DIII.NAIA Schools" I have sat through several HS graduations lately and until last year sat through one every year. All I heard this year was Akron, Kent State, Stark State. Was one Mogadore kids going to Walsh to play basketball (girl), my daughter who played no HS sports going to Heidelberg, and my prodigy who will not last two semesters at Waynesburg. I think the "flock" was over a couple of years ago. I actively try to recruit kids to Mount Union, and when that fails to Muskingum or Heidelberg and I can tell you, it's an up hill battle. Even just rying to get the really gifted kids to understand whats available in small colleges for them

My daughter would be at Akron if I wasn't one of those old fashioned people who saved for my kids education.

PS. If I missed the point, blame the pain pills, sorry

[PurpleSuit]

RE:  OHSAA FB Championships

Have they used the new Stadium at Akron yet as part of the championships?  Might help them keep them in the Akron/Canton Area with Massillon, U of Akron, and Fawcett...

akron submitted their own bid and did not make it.  imo, part of the "charm" of canton/massillon is the ability to see each game.  by adding akron, you would add highway travel and possibly a third day.  I dont think that columbus' plan makes much sense, I would think the local folks of stark county, and area, shouldnt worry too much.  Tressel's influence can't mask all of the problems that moving the games to Cbus would entail

[Blutarsky]

Several years ago, the argument from the southwest schools was the drive time to Canton/Massillon.  The parents griped about the time on the road, the coaches/players grumbled about the 4 hours on the bus and how it hurt their performance.  Then along comes Elder and St. X and they won a few championships.....the drive became insignificant.  What was once a strong position about the distance became moot.  Methinks they stay where they are......if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  If it changes, then Tressel has more influence with OHSAA than I thought.  BTW, the Ohio State coaches regularly attend the championship games....just look for them in the endzone areas.

[raiderpa]

Akron Stadium (Infocision Field) can't be more than 12 miles or so up I-77/Rt 8 from Fawcett...In fact it may be closer to Fawcett than Massillon Tiger Stadium...and it is beautiful for playoff football...they held some high school stuff there last fall and got good reviews

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

Akron Stadium (Infocision Field) can't be more than 12 miles or so up I-77/Rt 8 from Fawcett...In fact it may be closer to Fawcett than Massillon Tiger Stadium...and it is beautiful for playoff football...they held some high school stuff there last fall and got good reviews

Fawcett to Infocision - 21.4 miles (24 minutes via Maps.google.com)
Faccett to Massillon - 6.3 miles (14 minutes via Maps.google.com)

[Dr. Acula]

I thought the Akron bid was to use InfoCision and Dix so they could have a 2 stadium set up.

The knock on Columbus has always been the lack of a 2nd venue and/or the Shoe being too big.  Nothing you can really do about the latter.  As for the former, Crew Stadium is the perfect size (22,500) to host some games and it's literally on top of 71, but it's not turf.  The OHSAA likes turf over grass.

[formerd3db]

I thought the point was "more and more student athletes flocking to DIII.NAIA Schools" I have sat through several HS graduations lately and until last year sat through one every year. All I heard this year was Akron, Kent State, Stark State. Was one Mogadore kids going to Walsh to play basketball (girl), my daughter who played no HS sports going to Heidelberg, and my prodigy who will not last two semesters at Waynesburg. I think the "flock" was over a couple of years ago. I actively try to recruit kids to Mount Union, and when that fails to Muskingum or Heidelberg and I can tell you, it's an up hill battle. Even just rying to get the really gifted kids to understand whats available in small colleges for them

My daughter would be at Akron if I wasn't one of those old fashioned people who saved for my kids education.

PS. If I missed the point, blame the pain pills, sorry

seventies:
Forgive me for jumping in here in the middle of the discussion (especially since I didn't read the previous comments ).  Just to add a general comment to what you mention above; the past couple of years, in going to graduation open houses and talking with families we know at church, the neighborhood, at work, etc. etc., many students - even if they want to play a sport in college and if they are not good enough or fortunate enough to receive an athletic scholarship at one of the other venues for that (i.e. other NCAA levels or NAIA as you mention) - are not going to the small colleges/universities because they and/or their parents simply cannot afford it.  Despite academic, community, alumni and other scholarships being available at these schools (and/or other types of financial aid, student loans, grants-in-aid, or parents taking out loans), again in many instances, it simply is not enough to cover all the expenses and parents can't afford it in these current tough economic times and rising education costs.  Disappointing and unfortunate, however, this is certainly what I've heard and seen to be true in many situations from people who have shared their stories with me/us.

[seventiesraider]

There are still championships outside of C-bus because the venue is unique like softball at Firestone stadium in Akron.

[PurpleSuit]

like volleyball at wright state or swimming in canton, somehow people still can make the drive.

[joelmama]

.... because they and/or their parents simply cannot afford it.  Despite academic, community, alumni and other scholarships being available at these schools (and/or other types of financial aid, student loans, grants-in-aid, or parents taking out loans), again in many instances, it simply is not enough to cover all the expenses and parents can't afford it in these current tough economic times and rising education costs.  Disappointing and unfortunate, however, this is certainly what I've heard and seen to be true in many situations from people who have shared their stories with me/us.

Can't disagree with you more.  It certainly may depend on the financial situation you are in but here is mine.  I make a good salary but next fall my oldest will be a Jr. at mercyhurst and my twins will enter Ohio U.  Mercyhurst is about $34K and Ohio U will be about $20K for everything.  They got financial assistance offers from most of the private schools they applied to that would make my total cost for them to be right around $18-$22K each.  So cost was essentially no factor in where they go since the private schools all pretty much equalized with the state schools.  Excluding loans Ohio U. offered nothing but $500 scholarships to the twins based on grades or test scores or something like that.  I think I could have negotiated with the privates to get more if they had chosen one of them as thier first choice.  OU told me that even though the FAFSA said my family contibution should be $17K for allkids that I was about right when I told them I would be paying about $65K next year.

[formerd3db]

.... because they and/or their parents simply cannot afford it.  Despite academic, community, alumni and other scholarships being available at these schools (and/or other types of financial aid, student loans, grants-in-aid, or parents taking out loans), again in many instances, it simply is not enough to cover all the expenses and parents can't afford it in these current tough economic times and rising education costs.  Disappointing and unfortunate, however, this is certainly what I've heard and seen to be true in many situations from people who have shared their stories with me/us.

Can't disagree with you more.  It certainly may depend on the financial situation you are in but here is mine.  I make a good salary but next fall my oldest will be a Jr. at mercyhurst and my twins will enter Ohio U.  Mercyhurst is about $34K and Ohio U will be about $20K for everything.  They got financial assistance offers from most of the private schools they applied to that would make my total cost for them to be right around $18-$22K each.  So cost was essentially no factor in where they go since the private schools all pretty much equalized with the state schools.  Excluding loans Ohio U. offered nothing but $500 scholarships to the twins based on grades or test scores or something like that.  I think I could have negotiated with the privates to get more if they had chosen one of them as their first choice.  OU told me that even though the FAFSA said my family contibution should be $17K for allkids that I was about right when I told them I would be paying about $65K next year.

Obviously, that is true for your situation.  However, I never said my comments apply 100% across the board for everyone.    I can tell you for a fact that just the opposite has occurred for many people that I know (including my own daughters).  There are nurmerous differences in many situations among, for example, many of the small schools in Ohio , i.e. this being completely different than that here in our state with regards to financial aid.  The difference between paying for a state college of universtity still can be and is in many situations quite vastly different here in our state, even with financial aid packages available for a good number of student-athletes who want to play at the DIII level (also several of us had a good discussion earlier this year on the boards comparing the current costs i.e.entire costs of schools in our tri-state area).  So while I believe you 100%, I also disagree with you substancially in that it certainly doesn't work for everyone.  My point was simply that, at least with many families I've talked with, that trend has hampered them in more recent years.  As we all know, everyone's situation is different and that underlines the importance even more of people checking out all their options, if they have the time and IF they truly desire to try to continue their athletic careers in college (with respect to this level as we've been discussing).

I'm glad that your situation turned out/worked out as it did for you, but it is unfortunate that it doesn't always work that way for others.  My kids did not play athletics in college, they are no "dummies" and graduated cum laude from Hope.  In the college search process, they looked, we attempted to get all the finanicial aid and/or apply for all the scholarships that they could everywhere, however, they ended up only getting an alunmi scholarship from Hope.  However, while I make a decent salary, like you, the negotiating as you mention could possibly have been done in your situation doesn't happen here.  Trust me, I know - I'm still paying the bills - and again, my kids are 'no dummies".  Had they gone to one of the state universities or colleges here, the cost would have been tremendously less for us (with or without scholarships), but...they wanted to go to Hope in the end and we're glad they did (as are they) , our own obvious bias aside.  So again, I'm just saying that in many situations, there is indeed a big difference in going to a state school and a small college for some people - I never said this applies to everyone. It is great when it works out such as in your situation, but again, unfortunate for those it doesn't.   Thanks for sharing your own situation - your comments add greatly to this discussion and shows the other side of the equation.    

[rscl70]

.... because they and/or their parents simply cannot afford it.  Despite academic, community, alumni and other scholarships being available at these schools (and/or other types of financial aid, student loans, grants-in-aid, or parents taking out loans), again in many instances, it simply is not enough to cover all the expenses and parents can't afford it in these current tough economic times and rising education costs.  Disappointing and unfortunate, however, this is certainly what I've heard and seen to be true in many situations from people who have shared their stories with me/us.

Can't disagree with you more.  It certainly may depend on the financial situation you are in but here is mine.  I make a good salary but next fall my oldest will be a Jr. at mercyhurst and my twins will enter Ohio U.  Mercyhurst is about $34K and Ohio U will be about $20K for everything.  They got financial assistance offers from most of the private schools they applied to that would make my total cost for them to be right around $18-$22K each.  So cost was essentially no factor in where they go since the private schools all pretty much equalized with the state schools.  Excluding loans Ohio U. offered nothing but $500 scholarships to the twins based on grades or test scores or something like that.  I think I could have negotiated with the privates to get more if they had chosen one of them as their first choice.  OU told me that even though the FAFSA said my family contibution should be $17K for allkids that I was about right when I told them I would be paying about $65K next year.

Obviously, that is true for your situation.  However, I never said my comments apply 100% across the board for everyone.    I can tell you for a fact that just the opposite has occurred for many people that I know (including my own daughters).  There are nurmerous differences in many situations among, for example, many of the small schools in Ohio , i.e. this being completely different than that here in our state with regards to financial aid.  The difference between paying for a state college of universtity still can be and is in many situations quite vastly different here in our state, even with financial aid packages available for a good number of student-athletes who want to play at the DIII level (also several of us had a good discussion earlier this year on the boards comparing the current costs i.e.entire costs of schools in our tri-state area).  So while I believe you 100%, I also disagree with you substancially in that it certainly doesn't work for everyone.  My point was simply that, at least with many families I've talked with, that trend has hampered them in more recent years.  As we all know, everyone's situation is different and that underlines the importance even more of people checking out all their options, if they have the time and IF they truly desire to try to continue their athletic careers in college (with respect to this level as we've been discussing).

I'm glad that your situation turned out/worked out as it did for you, but it is unfortunate that it doesn't always work that way for others.  My kids did not play athletics in college, they are no "dummies" and graduated cum laude from Hope.  In the college search process, they looked, we attempted to get all the finanicial aid and/or apply for all the scholarships that they could everywhere, however, they ended up only getting an alunmi scholarship from Hope.  However, while I make a decent salary, like you, the negotiating as you mention could possibly have been done in your situation doesn't happen here.  Trust me, I know - I'm still paying the bills - and again, my kids are 'no dummies".  Had they gone to one of the state universities or colleges here, the cost would have been tremendously less for us (with or without scholarships), but...they wanted to go to Hope in the end and we're glad they did (as are they) , our own obvious bias aside.  So again, I'm just saying that in many situations, there is indeed a big difference in going to a state school and a small college for some people - I never said this applies to everyone. It is great when it works out such as in your situation, but again, unfortunate for those it doesn't.   Thanks for sharing your own situation - your comments add greatly to this discussion and shows the other side of the equation.    

I haven't seen any mention of the number of years it takes to graduate.  A few years ago I was present for a similar discussion at Mount Union, and one thing that was pointed out is that most Mount students could expect to graduate in 4 years, whereas many state universities took 5 years for an undergraduate degree due to overcrowding and subsequent difficulty in getting in courses required for graduation.  Perhaps that is no longer true, but it may be worth consideration when calculating total cost.  I know that all of my friends whose children attended state universities ended up paying for 5 years.

[Raider 68]

Here is an Pre-season All American Team courtesy of Bobo:

Cecil Shorts and Sam Kershaw made from the Raiders

http://cdsdraft.com/aa.php?team=Division%20III

[purple]

 How could they possibly put Kershaw on the second team?  Where are these first team linebackers from?  Who have they played against?  Who have they beat?  How many have they played and won?    Please.