FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[seventiesraider]

Thanks Blutarsky. Guess I don't get an extra basketball at home

[Knightstalker]

.... because they and/or their parents simply cannot afford it.  Despite academic, community, alumni and other scholarships being available at these schools (and/or other types of financial aid, student loans, grants-in-aid, or parents taking out loans), again in many instances, it simply is not enough to cover all the expenses and parents can't afford it in these current tough economic times and rising education costs.  Disappointing and unfortunate, however, this is certainly what I've heard and seen to be true in many situations from people who have shared their stories with me/us.

Can't disagree with you more.  It certainly may depend on the financial situation you are in but here is mine.  I make a good salary but next fall my oldest will be a Jr. at mercyhurst and my twins will enter Ohio U.  Mercyhurst is about $34K and Ohio U will be about $20K for everything.  They got financial assistance offers from most of the private schools they applied to that would make my total cost for them to be right around $18-$22K each.  So cost was essentially no factor in where they go since the private schools all pretty much equalized with the state schools.  Excluding loans Ohio U. offered nothing but $500 scholarships to the twins based on grades or test scores or something like that.  I think I could have negotiated with the privates to get more if they had chosen one of them as their first choice.  OU told me that even though the FAFSA said my family contibution should be $17K for allkids that I was about right when I told them I would be paying about $65K next year.

Obviously, that is true for your situation.  However, I never said my comments apply 100% across the board for everyone.    I can tell you for a fact that just the opposite has occurred for many people that I know (including my own daughters).  There are nurmerous differences in many situations among, for example, many of the small schools in Ohio , i.e. this being completely different than that here in our state with regards to financial aid.  The difference between paying for a state college of universtity still can be and is in many situations quite vastly different here in our state, even with financial aid packages available for a good number of student-athletes who want to play at the DIII level (also several of us had a good discussion earlier this year on the boards comparing the current costs i.e.entire costs of schools in our tri-state area).  So while I believe you 100%, I also disagree with you substancially in that it certainly doesn't work for everyone.  My point was simply that, at least with many families I've talked with, that trend has hampered them in more recent years.  As we all know, everyone's situation is different and that underlines the importance even more of people checking out all their options, if they have the time and IF they truly desire to try to continue their athletic careers in college (with respect to this level as we've been discussing).

I'm glad that your situation turned out/worked out as it did for you, but it is unfortunate that it doesn't always work that way for others.  My kids did not play athletics in college, they are no "dummies" and graduated cum laude from Hope.  In the college search process, they looked, we attempted to get all the finanicial aid and/or apply for all the scholarships that they could everywhere, however, they ended up only getting an alunmi scholarship from Hope.  However, while I make a decent salary, like you, the negotiating as you mention could possibly have been done in your situation doesn't happen here.  Trust me, I know - I'm still paying the bills - and again, my kids are 'no dummies".  Had they gone to one of the state universities or colleges here, the cost would have been tremendously less for us (with or without scholarships), but...they wanted to go to Hope in the end and we're glad they did (as are they) , our own obvious bias aside.  So again, I'm just saying that in many situations, there is indeed a big difference in going to a state school and a small college for some people - I never said this applies to everyone. It is great when it works out such as in your situation, but again, unfortunate for those it doesn't.   Thanks for sharing your own situation - your comments add greatly to this discussion and shows the other side of the equation.    

I haven't seen any mention of the number of years it takes to graduate.  A few years ago I was present for a similar discussion at Mount Union, and one thing that was pointed out is that most Mount students could expect to graduate in 4 years, whereas many state universities took 5 years for an undergraduate degree due to overcrowding and subsequent difficulty in getting in courses required for graduation.  Perhaps that is no longer true, but it may be worth consideration when calculating total cost.  I know that all of my friends whose children attended state universities ended up paying for 5 years.

At NJCU he in NJ, it generally takes between 5 and 6 years to graduate.  There is difficulty getting courses on time, many students need remedial instruction in either math or reading, and many students are working full time while going to school.  That is NJCU which is an inner city school drawing on a large number of first generation college students and foreign immigrant students. 

[PurpleSuit]

Is anyone aware of the lady from Alliance who called 911 five times in succession looking for a husband?
I heard this on a Twin Cities radio station this morning, is there any truth to this?

She was of course arrested.

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/jun/08/woman-calls-911-get-husband-ar-101618/

[Raider 68]

Heard from a Mount internal source today that Matt Piloto QB, 6'6 220 from FL had a great spring. He will be a Soph. this fall and may be the one to watch when fall practice begins!

[formerd3db]

rscl170 and knightstalker:

Good points.  While it perhaps is not as common for that to happen at some other DIII schools, it does happen for the NJ state schools.  Just as you mention about Mount Union, at Hope, most people do graduate in 4 years, although sometimes for some people, it does take that extra semester and/or the entire 5th year.  In some situations, it depends on the academic track that was chosen, while in others, perhaps classes had to be taken in different stints, time slots, delayed, etc. for whatever reason.  Of course, that extra time does add to the cost as you've pointed out. 

[formerd3db]

So will be hearing any announcers saying the pass is from "Seaman to Shorts stopped by Hooker?"

joelmama:

Hilarious!    +k for you!

[seventiesraider]

 Thanks for cheering me up with all this 5-6 year talk. I'm looking for a job with the Russian mob to pay for this.

(Yea thats why it took me 36 years to graduate, I couldn't schedule that darn Calculus class)

[Raider 68]

rscl170 and knightstalker:

Good points.  While it perhaps is not as common for that to happen at some other DIII schools, it does happen for the NJ state schools.  Just as you mention about Mount Union, at Hope, most people do graduate in 4 years, although sometimes for some people, it does take that extra semester and/or the entire 5th year.  In some situations, it depends on the academic track that was chosen, while in others, perhaps classes had to be taken in different stints, time slots, delayed, etc. for whatever reason.  Of course, that extra time does add to the cost as you've pointed out. 

The bottom line is that is costs so much for a bachelor's degree especially at a private school and now in Ohio at least the state schools have greatly increased their fees. The reduction of state support at all education levels have been a major cause. At Mount 80-85% of the students have student loans.

Students at state schools will continue to take 4.5-5 yrs  to graduate as mentioned previously for a variety of reasons. The other factor is all these costs carried by the parents are after tax dollars. You have to earn $50-55 k per year to cover a schools whose fees  in total are $35k, assuming no loan offsets. WOW!

[formerd3db]

rscl170 and knightstalker:

Good points.  While it perhaps is not as common for that to happen at some other DIII schools, it does happen for the NJ state schools.  Just as you mention about Mount Union, at Hope, most people do graduate in 4 years, although sometimes for some people, it does take that extra semester and/or the entire 5th year.  In some situations, it depends on the academic track that was chosen, while in others, perhaps classes had to be taken in different stints, time slots, delayed, etc. for whatever reason.  Of course, that extra time does add to the cost as you've pointed out. 

The bottom line is that is costs so much for a bachelor's degree especially at a private school and now in Ohio at least the state schools have greatly increased their fees. The reduction of state support at all education levels have been a major cause. At Mount 80-85% of the students have student loans.

Students at state schools will continue to take 4.5-5 yrs  to graduate as mentioned previously for a variety of reasons. The other factor is all these costs carried by the parents are after tax dollars. You have to earn $50-55 k per year to cover a schools whose fees  in total are $35k, assuming no loan offsets. WOW!

Incredible, isn't it?   But true.

[seventiesraider]

Makes all that high school "pay to play" stuff look kinda silly/

[Mr. Ypsi]

rscl170 and knightstalker:

Good points.  While it perhaps is not as common for that to happen at some other DIII schools, it does happen for the NJ state schools.  Just as you mention about Mount Union, at Hope, most people do graduate in 4 years, although sometimes for some people, it does take that extra semester and/or the entire 5th year.  In some situations, it depends on the academic track that was chosen, while in others, perhaps classes had to be taken in different stints, time slots, delayed, etc. for whatever reason.  Of course, that extra time does add to the cost as you've pointed out. 

The bottom line is that is costs so much for a bachelor's degree especially at a private school and now in Ohio at least the state schools have greatly increased their fees. The reduction of state support at all education levels have been a major cause. At Mount 80-85% of the students have student loans.

Students at state schools will continue to take 4.5-5 yrs  to graduate as mentioned previously for a variety of reasons. The other factor is all these costs carried by the parents are after tax dollars. You have to earn $50-55 k per year to cover a schools whose fees  in total are $35k, assuming no loan offsets. WOW!

Need not be true.  There are tax-free college savings accounts available to everyone (and if the plan is by your state, your will also get state tax credits).  Plus there are federal tax credits or deductions available.  While they ease the pain only somewhat, I've been getting big tax refunds every year since I retired (when I feared I was going to get hit with big enough tax payments that I might even have to pay a penalty for not doing quarterly payments.  I'll get these new tax calculations figured out someday!)

[wildcat11]

A poster on the NAIA is upset because Mount Union won't put Walsh on the schedule.  I pointed out that Mount only has one non-conference game to fill and why play out of division games.  This NAIA poster said that Walsh would provide better competition than any other team in the OAC it would generate great interest in the community.  So I thought I would go to those that know.  Has Mount ever considered playing Walsh and could Walsh even put up a decent fight for the Purple Raiders?

[reality check]

Just got back from a short trip to SoCal.  I didn't see Sunshine or his dad but I did visit Occidental. Redlands, Claremont McKenna and Pomona on my way back home.  There are some beautiful campuses out west and some great facilities.  I got to talk to a handful of coaches and everyone was extremely hospitable.  It was pretty cool to see how football works on the other side of the country.  I think the SCIAC schools have some very comparable facilities but see two major hurdles for some of the schools: 1.  the academic standards are as high here as anywhere and 2.  the palm tree/Cali girl quotient is high and could really keep some guys from staying focused on football and schoolwork. 

Great trip though.  The fact that CMS and Pomona-Pitzer have stadiums about 100 yards apart was a trip.  The opposing team dresses in their own locker room, laces up and crosses the street for their "away" game.  These kids primarily attend their school but could take classes in the opposing school so they can end up sitting in a classroom with members of the opposing team.  Weird but very cool dynamic that is unmatched in all of college football (at any level).

[Raider 68]

A poster on the NAIA is upset because Mount Union won't put Walsh on the schedule.  I pointed out that Mount only has one non-conference game to fill and why play out of division games.  This NAIA poster said that Walsh would provide better competition than any other team in the OAC it would generate great interest in the community.  So I thought I would go to those that know.  Has Mount ever considered playing Walsh and could Walsh even put up a decent fight for the Purple Raiders?

You are correct regarding your first statement regarding Mount playing Walsh with Mount having only one non-conference game.  The main reasons Mount has/will not play Walsh are these.

1. Coach Kehres believes there are very competitive D3 schools to schedule
   for their non-conference game despite the reluctance of other schools
   wanting to play them.

2. In terms of recruiting players who select Walsh are not the same players
   that Mount would recruit. some players just want a NAIA school.

3. Walsh and nearby Malone have not played the competitive teams as
   as the upper tier of the OAC.

4. What does Mount have to gain by playing a NAIA school, not much even in
   the same community.

In the past several years I have talked with both people from Walsh and Malone (including players) and the majority have said that they cannot compete with Mount Union and some of the other top OAC teams.

[raiderpa]

regarding the 4 or 5 years to complete college these days, the Ohio Department of Education and colleges now require much more training and observation of actual classrooms to get a teaching certificate.  This has resulted in many education majors to have to take an extra semester to finish the requirements...

AN early note....Air Tran from Akron to Milwaukee, $168 RT...Oshkosh is 88 miles from Milwaukee...so for flight and car rental around 200