FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[Dr. Acula]

Does anyone know what Mount does about scrimmaging when their bye is week 1?  Do they just not have a scrimmage?  W&J opens 9/3 while Mount opens 9/10 so they're not scrimmaging the Presidents like usual.

[wally_wabash]

Does anyone know what Mount does about scrimmaging when their bye is week 1?  Do they just not have a scrimmage?  W&J opens 9/3 while Mount opens 9/10 so they're not scrimmaging the Presidents like usual.

Could they not simply scrimmage the weekend before 9/3?  Wabash and Wheaton have participated in a scrimmage annually for probably 10+ years now.  Back in the day, both schools were not opening their seasons until Week 2, so the scrimmage happened during the Week 1 Saturday.  A few years ago I think Wheaton broke tradition and opened their schedule in Week 1.  It didn't squash the scrimmage, just moved it up a week.  FWIW, Wabash is now also opening play in Week 1 (started in 2014 with the Hampden-Sydney series). 

[Dr. Acula]

Could be, wally.  I just didn't know the rules for when camp can open so I didn't know if it was an option.

[wally_wabash]

Could be, wally.  I just didn't know the rules for when camp can open so I didn't know if it was an option.

There's some crazy calculus involved in figuring out when camps can open, but in general I think it's safe to assume that teams playing in week 1 probably get to open camp about a week earlier than teams that don't.  Whether W&J gets a week head start on UMU or not, I'm sure the Raiders would acquit themselves well.   Might even make the thing a little more interesting for you all.   

[badgerwarhawk]

The start date for fall practice is 8/13.  Though I don't know if there is any difference whether a team plays week 1 or not.

[wally_wabash]

The start date for fall practice is 8/13.  Though I don't know if there is any difference whether a team plays week 1 or not.

Is that a firm date for all schools?  If so that would be a new thing this year.  In the interest of accuracy and so that fans don't wonder why in the heck their team isn't practicing on 8/13 exactly, this is how teams had to figure out when practice can start in 2015, from the 2015-2016 Division III manual:

17.9.2.1 First Practice Date. A member institution shall not commence official preseason football practice sessions for the varsity, junior varsity or freshman team before the date that will permit a maximum of 25 practice opportunities (see Bylaw 17.9.2.1.1) before its first scheduled intercollegiate game or before the Friday after the institution's first contest (game) if the first contest is scheduled for a Thursday. (Revised: 1/10/89, 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 1/12/04, 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06, 1/17/15 effective 8/1/15)

17.9.2.1.1 Practice Opportunities—Football. In football only, to establish the starting date for preseason practice, the institution shall count one practice opportunity for each day beginning with the opening day of classes and one practice opportunity for each day classes are not in session in the week of the first scheduled intercollegiate contest (see Bylaw 17.9.3). Next, the institution shall count practice opportunities on an alternating basis in a two-one-two-one format (i.e., the first of the remaining days is counted as two, the next day is counted as one, the next as two, etc.) up to and including the 20th opportunity. Finally, the institution shall count one practice opportunity for each of the five days before the day of the 20th opportunity.  The institution shall not count any days during the preseason when all institutional dormitories are closed, the institution's team must leave campus and practice is not conducted. (Adopted: 1/12/04)

17.9.2.1.1.1 Sunday. Sundays before the institution's opening day of classes are included in the counting. Sundays after the institution's opening day of classes are excluded from the counting. (Adopted: 1/12/04) 17.9.2.1.1.2 Week. The "week" of the first scheduled intercollegiate contest is defined as the six days, including or excluding Sunday pursuant to Bylaw 17.9.2.1.1.1, before the first contest (or before Friday if the first contest is on Thursday, see Bylaw 17.9.3) even if one or more of the days fall into different traditional calendar weeks. (Adopted: 1/12/04, Revised: 3/29/11)

17.9.2.1.1.3 Opening Day of Classes. The "opening day of classes" is defined as the first day of classes as listed in the institution's official catalog. Required freshman orientation is not considered to be the opening day of classes for the academic year. (Adopted: 1/12/04)

My guess, although this year's manual doesn't appear to be published yet, is that we still have to count backward using first game and opening day of classes as reference points until we get to 25 practice opportunities- which is going to leave different teams starting their camps on all manner of different days. 

[ADL70]

For a few years CWRU scrimmaged BW the Saturday before week 1 despite BW not opening till week 2. By scrimmage day, they had had 4-5 fewer practice days.

This year CWRU has physicals on 8/13 with first practice on 14th.

[badgerwarhawk]

The start date for fall practice is 8/13.  Though I don't know if there is any difference whether a team plays week 1 or not.

Is that a firm date for all schools?  If so that would be a new thing this year.  In the interest of accuracy and so that fans don't wonder why in the heck their team isn't practicing on 8/13 exactly, this is how teams had to figure out when practice can start in 2015, from the 2015-2016 Division III manual:

17.9.2.1 First Practice Date. A member institution shall not commence official preseason football practice sessions for the varsity, junior varsity or freshman team before the date that will permit a maximum of 25 practice opportunities (see Bylaw 17.9.2.1.1) before its first scheduled intercollegiate game or before the Friday after the institution’s first contest (game) if the first contest is scheduled for a Thursday. (Revised: 1/10/89, 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 1/12/04, 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06, 1/17/15 effective 8/1/15)

17.9.2.1.1 Practice Opportunities—Football. In football only, to establish the starting date for preseason practice, the institution shall count one practice opportunity for each day beginning with the opening day of classes and one practice opportunity for each day classes are not in session in the week of the first scheduled intercollegiate contest (see Bylaw 17.9.3). Next, the institution shall count practice opportunities on an alternating basis in a two-one-two-one format (i.e., the first of the remaining days is counted as two, the next day is counted as one, the next as two, etc.) up to and including the 20th opportunity. Finally, the institution shall count one practice opportunity for each of the five days before the day of the 20th opportunity.  The institution shall not count any days during the preseason when all institutional dormitories are closed, the institution’s team must leave campus and practice is not conducted. (Adopted: 1/12/04)

17.9.2.1.1.1 Sunday. Sundays before the institution’s opening day of classes are included in the counting. Sundays after the institution’s opening day of classes are excluded from the counting. (Adopted: 1/12/04) 17.9.2.1.1.2 Week. The “week” of the first scheduled intercollegiate contest is defined as the six days, including or excluding Sunday pursuant to Bylaw 17.9.2.1.1.1, before the first contest (or before Friday if the first contest is on Thursday, see Bylaw 17.9.3) even if one or more of the days fall into different traditional calendar weeks. (Adopted: 1/12/04, Revised: 3/29/11)

17.9.2.1.1.3 Opening Day of Classes. The “opening day of classes” is defined as the first day of classes as listed in the institution’s official catalog. Required freshman orientation is not considered to be the opening day of classes for the academic year. (Adopted: 1/12/04)

My guess, although this year's manual doesn't appear to be published yet, is that we still have to count backward using first game and opening day of classes as reference points until we get to 25 practice opportunities- which is going to leave different teams starting their camps on all manner of different days. 

My bad I should have stated that it was our first day of practice.  We open the season 9/3 so it's 21 days before the first game.

[Dr. Acula]

Off topic, but I was reading an article about Malone football and it jogged my memory that they left the GLIAC.  Curiosity got the best of me and I had to look up their record.  Good grief.  In their 4 years in the GLIAC they were 3-36 in GLIAC play.  No wonder they bailed.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Off topic, but I was reading an article about Malone football and it jogged my memory that they left the GLIAC.  Curiosity got the best of me and I had to look up their record.  Good grief.  In their 4 years in the GLIAC they were 3-36 in GLIAC play.  No wonder they bailed.

Topic to kill some time while we wait for camps to open:

Obviously this is variable from situation to situation, but when you have a program that's consistently getting creamed in their conference, is the right move:

a) Stay put and try to get better so you can compete
b) Leave the conference for better competitive fit

There are arguments to be made for both sides, and it really depends on many things - are you getting killed because your school doesn't fit the conference profile? if it's a problem of institutional support, is there a realistic chance of getting more resources to compete? etc. 

An example of scenario A: Heidelberg spent a couple years getting smoked (0-10 four times in seven years from 2000-2006, total of four wins in those seven years) but stayed put (although I don't know if there's anywhere else that they would go, humor me) and eventually rose to a regionally-ranked program that contended with / beat everyone but Mount Union.

An example of scenario B: Western Connecticut spent their last few years getting run off the field in the NJAC, jumped ship to the MASCAC and now competes as an upper-middle-tier team in that conference.  Are they having more success in a lesser league?  Yes.  Are they any better today than they were in 2012?  I don't know. 

You can certainly make the argument that some scenario B teams never actually improve, they just appear "more competitive" because they play a softer schedule, but isn't that kind of the point for Division 3 anyway?  Finding true "peer" institutions that they can compete with?

Anyways, just a topic to get us through the next week or two.

[Dr. Acula]

Malone wasn't a good NAIA program.  Dropping them into the toughest D2 conference was an experiment doomed from the start.  To your point on "finding peer institutions", Malone was the first to leave the GLIAC, but five other schools of similar profile (smaller, private) are leaving the GLIAC after this year and joining Malone in the GMAC. 

I agree that with D3 it really is more about finding similar schools to compete with.  A very small percentage of programs have aspirations beyond winning their conference.  I've seen that point made several times in the past on the E8 and LL boards and it's very true.  It's good to remind ourselves of that occasionally.   

[raiderpa]

In my uneducated opinion, Malone and Walsh would both be better off dropping to D3.  I really don't know why they want to participate in a division where they are bottom feeders.  The basketball programs have been decent, but they  would be better off and cut their costs and travel in d3.

[sigma one]

I don't suppose there is any evidence that suggests that Walsh and Malone are inclined to move to Division III..  But just for the sake of speculation, where would they land?  Would either the OAC or the NCAC have them?  Certainly not the NCAC, which already has ten members with all the institutions having a Phi Beta Kappa chapter.  In the past they have insisted on PBK as a requirement for entrance.  Not the OAC either (though I am less certain of how the conference parameters work).  The OAC also has ten members, and so in football all the teams play one another while leaving an opening OOC game.  Going independent?  Who would they play?   Even if they were interested in considering a move to DIII wouldn't it be a difficult situation for them?  Maybe that alone would keep them from seriously considering a move.

[Dr. Acula]

It's an interesting what if.  I agree, there's no way the NCAC would want them.  I don't think the OAC would either.  First, I think 10 is the perfect number so unless someone was leaving I don't see why either conference would take them.  Second, I think the OAC would let Mount weigh in because that'd put three conference schools in one county less than 30 minutes apart.  I don't know that Mount would care, but maybe they would.

If memory serves, I believe Malone actually kicked around the idea of dropping down to D3 before settling on staying D2 and moving conferences.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Pause for the obligatory mention that although the above points are mostly focused on football, conference / divisional shifts usually require thinking of all sports, although football-only moves are certainly not unheard of.

In any case, I do agree that 10 teams is the maximum effective size for a Division III conference - not only in football, but really for all sports; with a 10-team basketball conference allows a full double-round-robin and still keep a selection of early non-league games; having 10 teams is a good size for combination team/individual sports like track, swimming, wrestling that have a conference championship meet.  More than 10 and things start to get clunky - just for football I think 9 is actually even better; the drawback to a 10-team football league is that you only get one OOC game, meaning your league has little chance to distinguish itself or boost SOS numbers, and your program specifically only gets one chance to schedule a nice OOC game instead of two.

However, if there was suddenly a free agent or two on the market, these games of musical chairs usually will work themselves out eventually.  Sure, in the current configuration it seems hard to imagine that the OAC or NCAC would take two additional members, but then maybe a few of those schools would opt out of their current league for a new arrangement if they found it more appealing.  Check out the assorted moves in the East recently; practically half of the East has changed conferences in the last five years.  Salisbury and Frostburg State hopped into the Empire 8 for a hot second and then joined the NJAC; while Buffalo State, Cortland State, Morrisville State, and Brockport State are all NJAC ex-pats that moved to the Empire 8.   Wesley is now in the NJAC, along with Christopher Newport.  Springfield passed through the Empire 8 on their way to the Liberty League.  Norwich fled the bottom of the Empire 8, joined up with a handful of fledgling new programs and poof, here's the ECFC.  The NEFC splintered into two conferences and picked up NJAC refugee Western Connecticut.

If Walsh and/or Malone decided to move down, suppose they quietly approached Marietta and Wilmington decided it was too hard to get any traction in the OAC, appealed to Earlham from the HCAC, Kenyon from the NCAC, grabbed another wild-card that's been struggling (Hiram? Allegheny?) and form a new league?  Does that seem clunky and ridiculous?  Yeah, kind of, but it's not all that different from the ECFC, which slapped together a couple of recently-started programs (Mount Ida, Husson, Becker, Gallaudet, Castleton, Anna Maria) and refugees (OK, I actually think it was just one refugee, Norwich).  Or what's about to happen in the next couple years:

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2015/04/newmac-adds-football

I don't know if all the specific programs listed above would cooperate, but it's not terribly hard to imagine that Walsh/Malone (if they decided dropping to D3 was the right move) could find a couple other bottom-feeders or misfit toys who felt like they were out of place in their current league and try to make a new playground.