FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[WRMUalum13]

I guess using "Larry Leipold" as a way to refer to a team of the caliber coached by either Larry Kehres or Lance Leipold is a pretty clever idea! I shouldn't have been so quick to correct!!

[edward de vere]

Larry . . . Lance . . . .  Wine . . . Bourbon . . .

Nonetheless, the question stands:  If Mount can't win the Stagg because it doesn't have a GREAT running attack (merely a very good one), then which team all across the fruited plain WILL win the Stagg, DesertRaider?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

[Desertraider]

Larry . . . Lance . . . .  Wine . . . Bourbon . . .

Nonetheless, the question stands:  If Mount can't win the Stagg because it doesn't have a GREAT running attack (merely a very good one), then which team all across the fruited plain WILL win the Stagg, DesertRaider?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

This isn't about who will win - but who won't (or hasn't in the past). Mount has had some really good RBs and all the weapons in years past and failed to win it all. I didn't think St Johns could beat them in 03, or UMHB in 04, I didn't think Mount would lose to UWW in 09, 10 and 11. But Jeremy Murray, Ricky Ciccone, Terrance Mooring or later Soph Logan Nemeth aren't the same as Gresko, Pugh, Moore, Kmic, Senior Logan Nemeth and so on. Mount had a dynamic team with Bruney/Burghardt at QB but didn't have a back that could go between the tackles for positive yards and take over a game. Kevin Burke - as good as they get - but he didn't have the backs behind him and were pretty much one dimensional against UWW. Last year was different - they had a back that showed he could take over, but didn't have the QB play to compliment it. The years Mount has won it they were balanced teams that could run between the tackles, grind clock when needed, get tough yards, and a solid passing game. It kept the defense honest in all respects.

Coach Gagliardi said after the 2003 win in the Stagg that they came into the game and made the decision to either take away the run or the pass because he said they couldn't take away both. They took away the run and the deep ball and Mount couldnt get going. If I am playing Mount I focus on taking away the pass - especially the deep ball - and see if the run game is strong enough to carry them. Can an OAC team take away the pass? Nope. I don't see an OAC team deep enough with DBs and LBs that can cover Hill, Ruth, Friss, Herrington, and JEM/Petro out of the backfield. But get a team that can get pressure with a 3 or 4 man front and Mount will keep a back in for protection thus removing one weapon. Put your best corner/safety on Hill, force Ruth/Friss to underneath routes and hit them early with SS/LBs and who knows. Teams in the 3rd, Semis, and Finals normally are deeper at DB with 3 good ones and a couple really good LBs - plus a good front 3 or 4 - that's why they make it that far.

[Desertraider]

BTW - I listened to the Berg Coaches show from this past Thursday and they discussed the Mount game. The coach literally said that Mounts opening score took the wind out of the sails and "most of the rest was us shooting ourselves in the foot".  Sorry but the score was 63-7 and I watched it. All of it was Mount kicking your arse. If 1 play (in the first 12 seconds of the game) defeated you mentally and you can't acknowldge being outplayed in every facet of the game for the next 59 minutes and 48 seconds....then I hope you don't make the playoffs and give the conference a black eye.

[merlecanlas]

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB.

2012?  It early but JEM/Petro/Fulford have a little more game changing running ability than Lattimore/Simon/Burke, imo

[Dr. Acula]

And now for my no holds bar assessment of today's Mount game, Mount in general, and Berg.

Today's game....what the crap do you say about a quintupple-dropkick-a$$ stomp? Using CAPs first 2 drives - they scored - and a few throughout the first half - Mount had trouble getting pressure early. Partly due to CAP using quick passing - slants, screens, outs - but even when first and second read were covered the QB had time. On the passing in the 1st qtr the DBs were giving too much separation and gave up some quick hitters over the middle. Is what it is and it was corrected.

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB. I see a few nice carries here and there and the deep ball. We all know that will take them to the Semis (most likely) but they need a legitimate run game. I have not seen Mount play a complete game (the competition has not required it) this season. I need to see if JEM can handle 20+ carries, or if JEM/Petro can haul 30+, mixed in with a pass game. Years past we saw that a few times before playoffs - its getting late and I don't see a need until jcu. Right now I see a team that has been limited (I know - odd choice of wording) to the pass. One dimensional doesn't finish on top.

I have to disagree with this.  I can think of at least 4 of the title teams that lacked a game changing RB.  The problem is I don't think the 2017 has the other attributes that allowed those 4 teams to get by without one.  Not to sound like HScoach over the years, but it really does come down to line play.  If their O line can control the LOS and their D line can get pressure they will be fine.  The problem is that it sure looks like we aren't going to find out the answers to those questions until probably the regional finals.  I won't say the OAC is down because that implies the whole conference is.  It's more like this year everyone is bunched toward the middle.  The bottom teams are better, but the top teams aside from Mount are not as good.  End result being that I don't have high hopes for a true test in the regular season.     

[Desertraider]

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB.

2012?  It early but JEM/Petro/Fulford have a little more game changing running ability than Lattimore/Simon/Burke, imo

Take Lattimore out. He didn't have a carry in that Stagg and only had 1 against UMHB in Semis (and not even sure he made the trip). And your right and wrong. JEm?Petro/Fulford are better runners - but 2012 had a couple things for that team. 1. an over matched Tommie team. 2. Simon. Knock him if you want but he ran between the tackles for tough yards and kept the LBs in and away from the middle pass zones, which Denton and Collins feasted on. Look at the UMHB semis that year - Simon was a beast late between tackles. 3. They had to account for Burke, Simon and Skilliter - Skilliter only had a couple carries but his film showed they had to account for him, they did. But couldn't match Burke and Simon....with Denton and Collins. Run, Pass.

[Desertraider]

And now for my no holds bar assessment of today's Mount game, Mount in general, and Berg.

Today's game....what the crap do you say about a quintupple-dropkick-a$$ stomp? Using CAPs first 2 drives - they scored - and a few throughout the first half - Mount had trouble getting pressure early. Partly due to CAP using quick passing - slants, screens, outs - but even when first and second read were covered the QB had time. On the passing in the 1st qtr the DBs were giving too much separation and gave up some quick hitters over the middle. Is what it is and it was corrected.

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB. I see a few nice carries here and there and the deep ball. We all know that will take them to the Semis (most likely) but they need a legitimate run game. I have not seen Mount play a complete game (the competition has not required it) this season. I need to see if JEM can handle 20+ carries, or if JEM/Petro can haul 30+, mixed in with a pass game. Years past we saw that a few times before playoffs - its getting late and I don't see a need until jcu. Right now I see a team that has been limited (I know - odd choice of wording) to the pass. One dimensional doesn't finish on top.

I have to disagree with this.  I can think of at least 4 of the title teams that lacked a game changing RB.  The problem is I don't think the 2017 has the other attributes that allowed those 4 teams to get by without one.  Not to sound like HScoach over the years, but it really does come down to line play.  If their O line can control the LOS and their D line can get pressure they will be fine.  The problem is that it sure looks like we aren't going to find out the answers to those questions until probably the regional finals.  I won't say the OAC is down because that implies the whole conference is.  It's more like this year everyone is bunched toward the middle.  The bottom teams are better, but the top teams aside from Mount are not as good.  End result being that I don't have high hopes for a true test in the regular season.     

4 teams? Gresko, Moore, Pugh, Kmic, Simon (between tackles my friends), Nemeth account for less see carry the one...486 championships (math never was my thing)...where are the 4? BTW - I agree on the line comments though.

[merlecanlas]

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB.

2012?  It early but JEM/Petro/Fulford have a little more game changing running ability than Lattimore/Simon/Burke, imo

Take Lattimore out. He didn't have a carry in that Stagg and only had 1 against UMHB in Semis (and not even sure he made the trip). And your right and wrong. JEm?Petro/Fulford are better runners - but 2012 had a couple things for that team. 1. an over matched Tommie team. 2. Simon. Knock him if you want but he ran between the tackles for tough yards and kept the LBs in and away from the middle pass zones, which Denton and Collins feasted on. Look at the UMHB semis that year - Simon was a beast late between tackles. 3. They had to account for Burke, Simon and Skilliter - Skilliter only had a couple carries but his film showed they had to account for him, they did. But couldn't match Burke and Simon....with Denton and Collins. Run, Pass.

wasn't knocking Simon at all, his TD run against UMHB is a Mount Union classic.  But he was more of a tough, hard nosed runner rather than a game breaker. 

I think you're dealing with a young Mount running game right now.  A junior and freshman at RB and a Soph QB, they will get better over the next 7(?) weeks before Mount gets tested.  I think JEM has actually looked a lot better since Petro burst onto the scene, running harder with less dancing.  There is potential for a balanced Mount offense right now, Hill and Ruth are definitely in the same class with Denton and Jasper but they are deeper in '17 at WR than '12.  Maybe it's just going to be pass/run than run/pass this year. 

Isn't it crazy that in '12, Mount had three players that would be an all-american throw a pass?  Burke, Namdar, Scott and even Neal Seaman threw two passes

[Desertraider]

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB.

2012?  It early but JEM/Petro/Fulford have a little more game changing running ability than Lattimore/Simon/Burke, imo

Take Lattimore out. He didn't have a carry in that Stagg and only had 1 against UMHB in Semis (and not even sure he made the trip). And your right and wrong. JEm?Petro/Fulford are better runners - but 2012 had a couple things for that team. 1. an over matched Tommie team. 2. Simon. Knock him if you want but he ran between the tackles for tough yards and kept the LBs in and away from the middle pass zones, which Denton and Collins feasted on. Look at the UMHB semis that year - Simon was a beast late between tackles. 3. They had to account for Burke, Simon and Skilliter - Skilliter only had a couple carries but his film showed they had to account for him, they did. But couldn't match Burke and Simon....with Denton and Collins. Run, Pass.

wasn't knocking Simon at all, his TD run against UMHB is a Mount Union classic.  But he was more of a tough, hard nosed runner rather than a game breaker. 

I think you're dealing with a young Mount running game right now.  A junior and freshman at RB and a Soph QB, they will get better over the next 7(?) weeks before Mount gets tested.  I think JEM has actually looked a lot better since Petro burst onto the scene, running harder with less dancing.  There is potential for a balanced Mount offense right now, Hill and Ruth are definitely in the same class with Denton and Jasper but they are deeper in '17 at WR than '12.  Maybe it's just going to be pass/run than run/pass this year. 

Isn't it crazy that in '12, Mount had three players that would be an all-american throw a pass?  Burke, Namdar, Scott and even Neal Seaman threw two passes

Ah ha. See I never said a game breaker. A game changer at RB. The guy who can take over and change the game - hard yards inbetween tackles - first downs, grind clock - sure maybe break one. But the guy like Nemeth in the 2nd half against Tommies - running over people for yards and keeping the LBs tight to LOS. Or Kmic on that crazy 9 minute 4th qtr drive against UWW.

Mount can throw - no secret at all on that. But can they change the game and control the clock with a RB? A game changer.

[merlecanlas]

For Mount today I will be critical. I know the RBs have averages of 7+ but what I don't see is an actual run game. Mount has NEVER won a National Championship without a game changer at RB.

2012?  It early but JEM/Petro/Fulford have a little more game changing running ability than Lattimore/Simon/Burke, imo

Take Lattimore out. He didn't have a carry in that Stagg and only had 1 against UMHB in Semis (and not even sure he made the trip). And your right and wrong. JEm?Petro/Fulford are better runners - but 2012 had a couple things for that team. 1. an over matched Tommie team. 2. Simon. Knock him if you want but he ran between the tackles for tough yards and kept the LBs in and away from the middle pass zones, which Denton and Collins feasted on. Look at the UMHB semis that year - Simon was a beast late between tackles. 3. They had to account for Burke, Simon and Skilliter - Skilliter only had a couple carries but his film showed they had to account for him, they did. But couldn't match Burke and Simon....with Denton and Collins. Run, Pass.

wasn't knocking Simon at all, his TD run against UMHB is a Mount Union classic.  But he was more of a tough, hard nosed runner rather than a game breaker. 

I think you're dealing with a young Mount running game right now.  A junior and freshman at RB and a Soph QB, they will get better over the next 7(?) weeks before Mount gets tested.  I think JEM has actually looked a lot better since Petro burst onto the scene, running harder with less dancing.  There is potential for a balanced Mount offense right now, Hill and Ruth are definitely in the same class with Denton and Jasper but they are deeper in '17 at WR than '12.  Maybe it's just going to be pass/run than run/pass this year. 

Isn't it crazy that in '12, Mount had three players that would be an all-american throw a pass?  Burke, Namdar, Scott and even Neal Seaman threw two passes

Ah ha. See I never said a game breaker. A game changer at RB. The guy who can take over and change the game - hard yards inbetween tackles - first downs, grind clock - sure maybe break one. But the guy like Nemeth in the 2nd half against Tommies - running over people for yards and keeping the LBs tight to LOS. Or Kmic on that crazy 9 minute 4th qtr drive against UWW.

Mount can throw - no secret at all on that. But can they change the game and control the clock with a RB? A game changer.

I guess we will see, but I will tell you this.  I loved the manball formation with two TE and a FB when Powell comes in, and I don't see any reason why Mount can't run that with Fulford at QB in a playoff game.  Who was the last real Mount FB?  Ibeh? Ryder?

[Desertraider]

Tough to say. Logan was originally more of a FB and Simon was more of a FB in terms of style and size. Given the two choices I would say Ibeh. Granted it was more fun listening to the announcers stumble on his name.

[merlecanlas]

haha, just say "Ebay"

Nemeth and Simon were tailbacks playing fullback, this new FB is listed at 5-11, 250!!!  Now that's a FB, and he was a big time wrestler in HS.  I love it, love it

[Desertraider]

haha, just say "Ebay"

Nemeth and Simon were tailbacks playing fullback, this new FB is listed at 5-11, 250!!!  Now that's a FB, and he was a big time wrestler in HS.  I love it, love it

Ibeh was the easy part of his name. Try the first name.

[hsbsballcoach7]

As for the running game, our Oline needs to continue to get stronger and open up holes. They're doing what they need to, but haven't faced competition yet. They have time to work and get it all down. One thing I think they can take from Dartt was the two RB formation we used with Nemeth and Mitchell. This forces the D to focus on 3 guys that can run the ball (Fulford/Powell) and brings in the misdirection. We should also remember that Mount likes to save some things for JCU and late playoffs that I'm sure will be put in soon. Just need to keep getting better and get into playoffs healthy. Speaking of... any word on Vidal?