FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[JK]

I guess I will throw my two cents in...

Someone mentioned the Ohio St Basketball mess.  The difference there is that the NCAA accepted the university's self imposed penalty, which included a post season ban for a year (last year).  Had ONU imposed a post season ban on itself  for last season after thier internal investigation was complete, then we might not be having this conversation.  

It seems that the NCAA is accepting self imposed penalties from D1 schools more and more often, with litle or no additions to them.  Think South Carolina football just a few months ago.

That being said, I would assume that D1 schools have far more experience, people, and money to do internal investigations and to better know what to impose on themselves so the NCAA buys it.  I think ONU was caught a little off guard on having to do an internal.  I have been following D3 football since the mid 80's and I can't really recall a D3 school having committed a "major" infraction (in NCAA lingo).  Not saying it hasn't happened, I just can't recall one.

Another point, are the Seniors really "innocent" here.  If I do my math correctly, they played for Kaz and were around as Freshman when all this occurred (between their frosh and soph years, right??).

I am in as much shock as anyone, and I do agree this sucks for the kids (and the OAC as a whole, because I agree that ONU could have made some noise in the playoffs had they made it).  I think the NCAA really overreacted here.  The NCAA really jacked this up by the timing of the thing and I think the NCAA is an unfeeling, unthinking monolith (definition:  Something suggestive of a large block of stone, as in immovability, massiveness, or uniformity).  Just look recently of the decree from the NCAA that they would relax some rules because of the Hurricane, and then less than a week later, the president says they won't let FB, BB, and hockey players transfer without sitting a year.  Well, hell, if they wait a year they can go back to Tulane or wherever.  It is this year they will lose.

Here is one comment I agree with... that the NCAA doesn't take our division as seriously.  We are like their little pet.  They love us and feed us, but they look down on us.  We aren't supposed to act up and if we do, then they come down hard to "put us back in our place."  We are supposed to be the academic institutions that don't take athletics as seriously.  We are supposed to make the NCAA look good with GPA and graduating student athletes.  I would argue that an NCAA overreaction like this ONU thing would be pretty common with a D3 school that commits "major" violations.  In fact didn't a D3 TENNIS team just get the "Death penalty???"

My thoughts, take em or leave em...

[l39eagle]

JK
Nice post.  Your reference to the seniors, "are they really innocent"depends on your definition of innocent.  were there, then sophmores, participating in the early practices?  probably, but as a sophmore were they suppossed to go up to Kaz and say, "gee coach this is illegal, I'm not going to participate."  Anybody that knew Kaz knows that before the kid had a chance to blink he would be relegated to playing flag football on Sundays.
The football players, in this situation are the victims, not the perpetrators.  Kaz knowingly placed them in a very precarious position and abused the trust of the kids and university.  Ultimately, Kaz was a victim of his own arrogance.

[scotty]

my comment, I feel bad for the players...

my question, where were they housed and where were they fed during the "early" week of practice? didnt anybody from the admin know about this?

[formerd3db]

SaintsFAN:
I agree with you friend about players feeling the REAL pressure to attend practices mandated by a coach knowing that if they did not, they risked being "banished" to the bench i.e. non-contributors in retaliation as you mention.  However, IF they knew this was illegal, don't you think that SOMEONE among those players should "step up to the line of scrimmage" and do what is RIGHT and HONEST in inquiring of the administration whether or not the practices were appropriate?  I do, and there is certainly a confidential way to do that without jepordizing getting in trouble with the coach.  Of course, this takes much courage on the part of a young student-athlete, but IF that was the situation (i.e. they knew it was illegal, held out of the times that were permitted), then someone should have taken that course of action.  I do not know all the particulars of what happened, but rather am just posing this as a potential theoretical situation.  Moreover, what about the assistant coaches?   IF they knew, then they are responsible for such action themselves.  Indeed this is a sad situation.  Once again, I also agree with everyone else that the NCAA handled this extremely poor and they should be ashamed of themselves (they won't however as we all know. )

Scotty:  For once, I agree with you i.e. your last post.

[Pat Coleman]

my question, where were they housed and where were they fed during the "early" week of practice? didnt anybody from the admin know about this?

It was an athletics administrator that turned them in. But having read the formula that determines when practices can legally start, I can see where the administration might have been confused originally.

[BashDad]

As unfair as I think these very belated decisions and the resulting sanctions are, I still  feel that enforcement of NCAA rules (needed to keep the playing field even) has to assign some institutional responsibility.  Institutions and their administrations hire coaches.  Someone has to accept responsibility when the high cost of winning torques the program in a variety of ways--NCAA Chief Brand knows this, he lived through it dealing with Knight at I.U.  He had to bite the bullet, and I'm glad he did.  No one individual is bigger than the institution they represent.  

Still, the issues trampled in the ONU sanctions have to do with the NCAA's own language:  "expedient" and "fair."  I believe ONU will get some relief in the appeal--even the committee, given wider vision, will come to recognize the misguided direction of their sanctions.  Of course, this assumes that all relevant information has been made public.  

[formerd3db]

Pat:
Well, if that was the case i.e. some confusion, the penalty is indeed too extreme.  However, it appears that there was some "knowing intention" on the part of the Head Coach.

[formerd3db]

BashDad:
Excellent point friend i.e. "assuming all the relevent information has been made public".  All of us can argue and speculate and relate our personal opinions here, while obviously not having ALL the facts.   Nonetheless, makes for very interesting and relevent discussion.

[reality check]

former

Email me and I can tell you a thing or two that I think you would appreciate re: this situation. 


Scotty

Many of the players, year in and year out, stay in Ada for the summer to train and practice in player-organized sessions.  The original infractions took place in the form of coach-attended practice sessions according to the findings of the investigation.  It wasn't so much that the players showed up a week early and stayed in the dorms as it was the fact that they stuck around in the summer for throwing sessions and mini-practices that were innapropriately coordinated.  Pat is correct in the fact that the infractions were reported internally by an athletic administrator so it was noticed and handled internally at first when the administration became fully aware of the situation.   

JK
Could the players have stepped up and said "this is wrong"?  Yes.  But the reality of this situation is that a kid who steps up and says that won't put a halt to the infractions.  They would just be sealing their own fate regarding their role on the team.


Did anyone notice that one of the members of the Appeal Commitee is the OAC Commish?  That could play a role in whether or not ONU gets a fair deal from their appeal to all this as well.

[doeder]

For you Ohio Northern Fans:  Look at it this way. This is the price of doing business. This was the only thing that was going to get Kazxwcxicxy out of there. (Aside from a Kennedy like assasination) Now he is gone you have a top program that is clean. Be happy. It is punishing seniors who were on the team when it happened. So they are not totally clean.

I dont think the penalty would be as bad if there was not a cover up. Covering up and lying is the kiss of death.

Penalty 100% fair. Maybe should be a little longer. I would say two years.

lock of the decade: ONU appeal not winning

[BashDad]

doeder:

Why am I troubled by your "this is the price of doing business?"  I hope you will respond.

[l39eagle]

Doeder

My, my aren't we vindictive.  What's up with you and ONU.  Did one of the Polar Bears step on your pom poms while you were a cheerleader on Saturdays at that fine institution you attended.  You seem to know all about what transpired and you like coach Paul, how well do you know him?  How many games have you seen the Bears play while he has been the coach?

[JK]

Believe me, I know what would have happened if a kid would have stepped up to tell the coach he was wrong and that he wasn't going to attend an illegal practice.  I don't dispute that the kids pretty much HAD to go to these things if they wanted to play.  I never put this on the kids in my comment.

The only thing I meant was that maybe the use of the term "innocent" was a little off.  If these now seniors participated in the illegal workouts, either because they wanted to or because they HAD to, they are not "innocent."

The kids were put in an impossible situation, and it is unfortunate the price they must pay, but they shouldn't all be called innocent.

[ace]

Most kids in their freshman and sophmore year have no idea what is allowed and what is not as far as NCAA rules for practice.  I think most people would if not say they were innocent, at least say they were "not guility". They may have performed the act, but not knowlingly.

[4u]

The ONU situation is clearly unfortunate.  I am curious, however, as to what happened on Coach Paul's watch.  It was either hinted at or directly stated that there was a more recent incident.  Is that true?  If so, I would be curious to know what the infraction was.  I doubt the appeals process will favor ONU as these decisions are usually made with the understanding that the penalized institution will likely appeal.  It is not often that the NCAA likes to say "We were wrong"!  This is too bad for the younger players on the team.  I think the seniors who were involved did deserve some type of punishment.  It may have made sense to suspend them for a game or two (divided to the NCAA's approval).  All that said, this may not benefit MUC.  When ONU plays Mount, the players can truly leave it all on the field.  They don't need to save anything for the playoffs.  Coach Paul can use all of his tricks, formations, and plays because there's no reason to save them.  I think the Mount game becomes ONU's National Championship and I think it makes things quite interesting,
4u