FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[reality check]

pios

I found out after posting that both were transfer students.  The female golfer scenario also dates back to 2001. 

[FCC Approved Bland Name]

I've heard most of this discussion but there hasn't been any talk about why the investigation took so long.  Did they ask Deal Paul to stay out of it and leave it to some administrative person with no interest in knowing the future.   Who could have or should have expedited this process.  If I were Dean Paul, I would have wanted to know right now what happened.  I guess you don't do that at a new school or he was asked to not worry about it?

It would not have taken more than a couple of weeks to sort out the information and make a recommendation if the former coach was gone.

[tdubs]

So hypathetically speaking, lets say ONU loses one or two games and Cap only loses one or two games on the season. They both finished tied for second in the OAC. Does the second place CAP get in? I wish they would, but I highly doubt it with a loss to Otterbein. But maybe Coach Collins has some pull on the committee?

[purpled]

Once again the NCAA has shown that they have their heads up their @!#$. To penalize the current ONU football team for what another coach was responsible for only proves it.

[DII/DIIIFan]

ONU's web site says that their playoff suspension is on hold while the NCAA appeals process is completed - this could mean that ONU would be eligible for the playoffs in 2005 if they otherwise qualify.

They have until 10/6 to formally file an appeal, 30 days to prepare their appeal (11/6), then the NCAA has 30 days to respond (12/6), then ONU has 14 days (12/20) to file a rebuttal. After all this, the NCAA then has a hearing in front of an infractions committee.

Looks like the Polar Bears might be eligible for the playoffs in 2005 after all.

[Josh Bowerman]

Ric, et. al.--

What's up with the white pants?  They look FANTASTIC with the Purple jerseys. 

I guess I had always figured you guys couldn't find enough bleach, though!   

[pbear11]

this is post is for everyone who thinks knows what happened at ONU. reality check, i know you had the inside scoop but not even you knows the whole story.  i played 4 years for kaz, well 3 1/2, and for everyone that thinks things like the practices went on for years, they did not. i ran practices with recievers for three years in the off season and summers. only the last year did i ever see kaz anywhere near us. so stop with the bashing, he was a great coach who who loved to coach kids plain and simple. those of you outside the program think he's an ahole from the games, but that's only because he wanted us to succeed. occasionally there was some yelling. but othere than that the hole practice situation has been so exaggerated not only by outsiders but by the NCAA as well. hell they don't even know the truth because they talked to guys like brad watkins who had nothing to do with it. and i've heard things about what people said and what the NCAA and ONU came up with as far as practices and other things like film sessions and mandatory/nonmandatory summer practices which are completely false. were there some throwing sessions, not practices, yes they happened every summer. was kaz at some of them yes. how many? 4 maybe 5 out of at least 10 that we had. and not only that but he had his two kids who were both starting football, and one was a center so he practiced his snaps to me. the players who all came up before the start of training camp and the ones who threw with me did it all on their own. the coaches making them do it if they wanted to play is completely false. i had who i wanted there because they were already going to play and contribute a lot or start as far as RB's and WR's go. and i ran it myself the majority of the time. there was only 4 times kaz was around and the coaching was very minimal. and how many times did the NCAA ever talk to me? 1. and i'm the one person they should have talked to the most. so they have completely missed the boat on what happened and their rulings for ONU. there's a lot of great players and seniors that deserve to be in the playoffs, which they will make. the only thing is there are still players on the team who were right in the middle of the so called extra practices. there is no excuse for the NCAA to take 2 years to come up with crap. but then again it is the NCAA.

[Josh Bowerman]

I meant that sincerely.  The uni's DO look good.  I think you guys ought to scrap the black jerseys and purple pants--go with the purple/white and white/white look.  Classic.

[seventiesraider]

Sorry, there is just something about the "Black Nasties" and Purple pants that says  "Big Game. Please lets let the band wear white pants.

[jdean]

PBear11:
Do the outsiders include the President and administration of ONU? President Baker is quoted in the article on the front page that the NCAA investigation was in complete accord with their own internal investigation.
If the school's investigation was so wrong and hopeless, why didn't you write a letter, make a phone call, do something to volunteer all the information that you believed to be important? If there were others with equally important information, why didn't they come forward?

[formerd3db]

reality check:
Don't you think that student-athletes should read the NCAA rules and at least be somewhat familiar with them?   Didn't know what they were doing??   Back in my day, we knew that coaches were not allowed at any summer workouts.  The bottom line is that the situation is [was] a mess and sure is confusing.

FCC: Very good comments on the situation.

[seventiesraider]

Does anybody seriously think that any student should lnow and understand the rules pertaining to the operation and administration of a college football program?

[theaprof]

I think they should understand the basics--like when practices are allowed and what they can and can not be compelled to do.  That being said, I think the NCAA went overboard with this decision--especially since it was two years coming.  The playoff ban might have been reasonable for the season when the infractions occured, but not now.

[reality check]

Former

In theory I think you point is valid, however in practice I think it is wishful thinking.  The only way I think a player should be held accountable for knowing the specific rules would be if the coaching staff distrubuted some sort of NCAA rule book to them at the beginning of each year and that just doesn't happen.  If players were given a rule book, then it would be up to them to familiarize themselves with the rules and regulations. 

I really give the players the benefit of doubt on this one because if I were in Ada attending player-organized throwing sessions and one of my coaches (head coach or otherwise) hung out with his two young boys to play around with them and chip in here and there, I would not have thought too much about it to be perfectly honest.  You stay in town, go to the bar or head to Fricker's with an asst. coach to hang out (mind you some of your coaches are only two or three years older than you anyways so friendships exist that supercede football).  That is apparently okay to hang out with a coach but they can't bring their kids and hang out to watch a throwing session.  It is not completely cut and dry.

Was it illegal?  Yes.  According to the NCAA and the ONU internal investigation it was indeed illegal.  I am not arguing that.  What I am trying to say is that I really think a lot of programs across the country are reading about what has happened at ONU and are breathing a collective sigh of relief because they could be brought up on very similar circumstances if anyone watched them as closely as was the case with ONU.  If you have players working out on a division III campus during the summer and you have coaches working in their office on that same division III campus, then the formula is set for involvement at some level.  It is a small world if someone takes the time to investigate your program closely enough.

[polarbearman]

reality check..you said it perfectly!! and to expect this young adults in the college atmosphere, to read and understand all of the NCAA's fine print on rules and regulations is rediculous. Trying to juggle, classes, football, etc is tough enough as it is. I think the Coaching staff should literally sit down with the team and explain or hand out information that is abbreviated, or just highlights the main summer practicing issues. That way there should be no confusion. Either way, I'm happy that ONU is now eligible for the playoffs. One week at a time though for the Bears, and with some added inspiration..this week is Muskingum!!!