FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[JK]

Hey...

I'm a Steeler fan.

I'm also sorry I brought this up...

I forget that most "fans" don't share my relative pragmatism for their teams.

[Las Vegas Wildcards]

SaintsFan,

I'll really disappointed with your lame rebuttals to my previous message, are you ready to be schooled?

* 18 of 32 QBs could NOT have led that classic drive Sunday night, did you watch the game? We're talking Montana-like in the execution, as Big Ben has a shaky oline.
* You also somehow implied BB has been a "game manager", when nothing could actually be further from the truth. Even dating back to his rookie year, when he led Sixburgh to a nine game improvement, BB engineered four 4th quarter comebacks in his 14 starts in 2004. This year, with an average running game, BB had multiple comeback wins. Currently, he is only 12 comebacks short of Roger Staubach!
         PART 1 OF 2       

[Las Vegas Wildcards]

SaintsFan,
*"Palmer throws a better ball" and "CP is a better pocket passer" I can tell you're really grasping for straws now with those takes. Palmer may have a higher completion percentage, but who cares? That game winning TD pass to Holmes looked pretty accurate to me. Your pocket passer reference was truly something ou of the 1970s. Everyone knows in today's NFL, QB's must be both pocket AND mobile passers, even Drew Bledsoe knows that. Fortunately, BB can do both.
* If you took the time to read my posts, you'll see I've never dissed Mount Union. In fact, you can put the Raiders achievements up with those UCLA hoops teams under John Wooden.
* So you hit a Steelers fan, I'm sooo scared! Sounds like another immature Browns/Bengals fan.             
        PART 2 OF 2   

[Las Vegas Wildcards]

SaintsFan,

This is my last entry of the night. Look, Carson Palmer is a good QB, but clearly not the player he was before the injuries. Maybe the Bengals can somehow be competitive and he recover, but time will tell. Quarterbacking is far more than fantasy stats, and Palmer hasn't established himself as a clutch QB. Obviously, the loss of mobility hurts in the pocket from the serious knee injury in 2006.
Bottom line, Palmer just isn't in Big Ben's class, and BB has definitely had the better career. Ben has also separated himself from Manning and Rivers as the best QB from the 2004 draft following this great season. To suggest otherwise simply defies logic.   And yes, I still think the Steelers historic run is the NFL's answer to Mount Union. I know you bitter Ohio NFL fans don't like that, but get used to it. BTW, great Browns hire with Mangini, looks like success is right around the corner!               

[HSCTiger74]

Yup, 4 more super bowls and they will tie MUC for championships......just wanted to keep it in perspective.

And that's assuming that MUC doesn't win any more championships before the Steelers win their 4, a premise I strongly doubt.

[SaintsFAN]

Steel Curtain,

I watched the same game you did... even won a bunch of money because the Steelers couldn't cover the spread. 

I know just a little bit more about Quarterbacking than you do. 

By the way, you're just showing how big of a homer you are when you say "somehow implied BB has been a "game manager", when nothing could actually be further from the truth. Even dating back to his rookie year, when he led Sixburgh to a nine game improvement"

You're just another Pittsburgh guy.  To be honest with you, even some of the Steelers fans that I'm friends with (they also happened to play the game collegiately) share this view of Big Ben.  So it appears not all of you drink from the same cup.

[Knightstalker]

Steel Curtain,
Were you even alive in the 70's, because obviously I was watching a different NFL.  Pocket passers did not dominate in the 70's, the quarterbacks that lead the best teams were definitely not "pocket passers".  All quarterbacks will try to be a pocket passer first, but in the 70's the best I saw were able to scramble when needed.  Tarkenton, Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Jurgenson, Kilmer, Jaworski, all winning qb's all able to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball, all able to move out of the pocket and deliver the ball or make a play.

[Las Vegas Wildcards]

KnightStalker,

Yeah, I was watching a little NFL football in the 70's, and despite the QB's you named, the perception was still that a classic pocket passer was preferred. That really didn't start to change until the 1980's, when Randall Cunningham came aboard. My point was, Carson Palmer pretty much a statue at this point, and when forced to move, is a liability. Although Kurt Warner is a hall of fame caliber QB and played well in the Super Bowl, the Steelers were successful in pressuring him often, especially, on the game winning sack, because of his lack of mobility.     

[Superfoot Wallace]

How much has narrowing the hash marks changed quarterback play in the NFL?  Boundary and Wide have been mitigated quite a bit since the time of Bradshaw and Staubach.   Marvin Harrison and Jim Harbaugh might be prime examples of this phenomenon.  In a two wide set: Harrison could play a slot like position to Boundary, and Harbaugh's rollout ability helped to open some veer potential in the pro run game.

This is all not to mention effects on field goal distance and accuracy.

Martz-Vermeil Rams' offense employed some of the old body of knowledge, when the hash marks were wider, successfully with upbacks getting carries and deep backs getting the yards.  Still, to get this effect, Marshall Faulk with oneback speed-option knowledge and the two step drop from Warner's AFL experience manipulated some of the parameters to get those once Wide-Boundary looks.   Was it coincidence Holt, Bruce and Hakim have builds similar to Harrison?

Kleinsasser and the Wham trap were innovations looking to prolong this offense once defensive coordinators figured out what was going on.  But we all saw the effectiveness employed by Oregon State against USC using this scheme with different body types, interference as opposed to pancake blocking.

signed,
Ben Patrick

[Las Vegas Wildcards]

SaintsFan,
 Wow, it's really important the spread wasn't covered in the Super Bowl, well, maybe Sixburgh will cover next year! I think it's great you played QB at the college level, along with your drinking buddies, but that has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. Funny how you weren't able to come back with facts of your own.
 Causal fans have fallen into the "game manager" trap, partly due to the obsession with stats, and a few national TV analysts. What they fail to understand is the reason the Steelers have been winning titles over these decades, is a philosophical approach, whether it was Bradshaw or Big Ben in the pocket. Just because a QB  throws under 30 passes a game, doesn't mean he is only managing the game or the team doesn't trust him with more attempts. Since college teams also use this philosophy, I'm shocked that you of all people, don't grasp this. The gold standard in the NFL is winning, that's why BB is one of the elite QBs.   Case closed.            

[SaintsFAN]

SaintsFan,
  Wow, it's really important the spread wasn't covered in the Super Bowl, well, maybe Sixburgh will cover next year!

BTW, its very important... because I know in a big game that Pittsburgh won't live up to what all the idiot fans of theirs raise the "Line" to. 

You can count on this.  I have....

Steel Curtain,
Were you even alive in the 70's, because obviously I was watching a different NFL.  Pocket passers did not dominate in the 70's, the quarterbacks that lead the best teams were definitely not "pocket passers".  All quarterbacks will try to be a pocket passer first, but in the 70's the best I saw were able to scramble when needed.  Tarkenton, Staubach, Bradshaw, Griese, Jurgenson, Kilmer, Jaworski, all winning qb's all able to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball, all able to move out of the pocket and deliver the ball or make a play.

Just ignore him, knightstalker.  He has no idea what he's talking about... just let him enjoy "his" Super Bowl title.  Send a picture when you get your ring, azzhole.

He said that casual fans have fallen into... when, there are Pittsburgh fans that think the same thing.  Going into this season, there was talk of life after Ben.  But no... this wackjob has his finger on the pulse of America.  Can't possibly be talk of that.  I can't wait for Pat to boot this troll.

I'm not saying another word to you duecher. 

[Las Vegas Wildcards]

SaintsFan,

Which of your drinking Steelers fans thought Sixburgh was "thinking of life after Ben", where do you come up with this nonsense? In 2007, BB had the NFL's second highest passer rating behind Tom Brady. In fact, his '07 season rating was higher than any of Brady's 2001-2006 seasons. That's why the Steelers rewarded him with a $102 million dollar contract in the offseason!     
Now, back to my original post, I do feel, the Steelers historic run is very similar to what Mount Union has accomplished. I don't understand the hostility when comparing these two multiple champions, it must have struck a raw nerve with Ohio NFL fans.
Since I've proved my point beyond question, I'm leaving, heading west, to the oldest winning streak in the history of college football...................     

[theaprof]

HEY!!! LISTEN UP. (AND YES I KNOW I'M YELLING)

THIS THE OAC DIVISION III COLLEGE FOOTBALL BOARD--YOU WANT TO TALK PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL CR@P??  TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, I'M TIRED OF READING THIS $H1T.

[theaprof]

And now, please--can we go back to our regularly scheduled programming? 

Thank you.

[JK]

Steel Curtain,

From one Steeler fan to another, SHUT THE HELL UP AND GIVE US BACK OUR BOARD!!

Your narrow, myopic view is what annoys me about fans of any team, especially the ones I favor.