FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

As OU#25 mentioned, there just is not much head-to-head competition between the lower teams in OAC and WIAC to say for sure, but consider this:

UW-River Falls is alone in last place in the WIAC (0-3, 2-4 overall).  Their four losses have been by 4 to undefeated St. John's, by 1 (in OT) @ 4-2 UW-Stout, by 2 @ UW-Oshkosh, and by 2 (in TRIPLE OT) to 5-1 UW-LaCrosse.  Can anyone really imagine Musky or Wilma (or Heidi or 'etta) doing that?

At any rate, the perception is that the WIAC is great-to-good all the way down, while the OAC is GREAT-to-very good-to pretty bad if you go all the way down.

[OU#25]

Except that's still not an accurate representation of how we feel or what we've said.

I'm sorry if you feel that I mis-represented your comments.  If you feel that several teams from the OAC can challenge nationally for a championship then I've never heard that before...but that's great!

Mr. Ypsi
Great stats on UW-River Falls!
That's unbelievable!!!


You know this whole discussion can quickly topple if someone comes from a conference where every team is 5-5 for example...The would be the most competitive technically.

[HScoach]

OU#25,

I don't think any informed observer has ever thought the OAC was a one-team conference (after all, you nearly always also get a Pool C team).  Most would probably even say that the top half of the OAC is usually better than the top half of the WIAC.

But in comparing conferences, you gotta compare entire conferences.  The WIAC rarely has a team as weak as Heidi, Musky, Wilma, or 'etta usually are.  That is the difference (at least in my opinion).

BINGO. 

I strongly support the opinion that the WIAC is the #1 conference as a whole because of their bottom.   In most years, the bottom of the OAC is absolutely horrible.  And I mean horrible on par with the NCAC or PAC.  Now take just the top 4 or 5 teams and I'd like the OAC's chances against any other conference in the nation, but not at the bottom.

[seventiesraider]

This must be a down year because nobody has suggested that we move to another division, or stop dating their daughter or anything

[Mr. Ypsi]

This must be a down year because nobody has suggested that we move to another division, or stop dating their daughter or anything

Now that you mention it, in cruising the various boards I think I've seen more whining about why the WIAC doesn't go d2 than MUC!  Don't recall any dating complaints about sisters or daughters.

[purple]

  Got my letter about changing the name of Mount Union College to Something University.  Lets name the school after the individual most responsible for the survival and prosperity of  our dear old grandmother..... Larry Kehres University anyone?   

[mtfan]

OU#25,

I don't think any informed observer has ever thought the OAC was a one-team conference (after all, you nearly always also get a Pool C team).  Most would probably even say that the top half of the OAC is usually better than the top half of the WIAC.

But in comparing conferences, you gotta compare entire conferences.  The WIAC rarely has a team as weak as Heidi, Musky, Wilma, or 'etta usually are.  That is the difference (at least in my opinion).

I agree with you Ypsi, when comparing conferences in their entirety then the WIAC would have to be the stronger conference, and likewise, the upper half of the OAC might be slightly better than the same top half of WIAC.  However, i find it abit hard to compare conferences on a level playing field. Its more like comparing apples and oranges when the WIAC has 60,000+ student enrollment compared to the OAC having just over 20,000. The enrollment of Eau-Claire and Oshkosh alone exceeds all the OAC combined! Even the largest OAC enrollment, assuming its BW at 3400+, is well under the UW-Platteville or UW-River Falls both just over 5000. There might be some legitimacy to moving to D2 when you start pushing the sizes these schools are chiming in with! JMO  Makes me wonder what LK would do with those numbers to work with at Mount.  

[mtfan]

Pat
The pic taken by Ryan on the cover page of Blaser is just a phenomenal shot!
So much can be caught in a snapshot like that, but not always an easy one to get! GREAT JOB GUYS!

[Raider 68]

What if DePauw did not want to join the NCAC and JCU did not want to leave the OAC and were previously rejected ( according to an earlier post).

Who would the NCAC go after? I do not understand why a conference would not play each member every year, 9 teams, 8 conference games.

[Mr. Ypsi]

OU#25,

I don't think any informed observer has ever thought the OAC was a one-team conference (after all, you nearly always also get a Pool C team).  Most would probably even say that the top half of the OAC is usually better than the top half of the WIAC.

But in comparing conferences, you gotta compare entire conferences.  The WIAC rarely has a team as weak as Heidi, Musky, Wilma, or 'etta usually are.  That is the difference (at least in my opinion).

I agree with you Ypsi, when comparing conferences in their entirety then the WIAC would have to be the stronger conference, and likewise, the upper half of the OAC might be slightly better than the same top half of WIAC.  However, i find it abit hard to compare conferences on a level playing field. Its more like comparing apples and oranges when the WIAC has 60,000+ student enrollment compared to the OAC having just over 20,000. The enrollment of Eau-Claire and Oshkosh alone exceeds all the OAC combined! Even the largest OAC enrollment, assuming its BW at 3400+, is well under the UW-Platteville or UW-River Falls both just over 5000. There might be some legitimacy to moving to D2 when you start pushing the sizes these schools are chiming in with! JMO  Makes me wonder what LK would do with those numbers to work with at Mount.  

Student enrollment is relevant ONLY if you assume that colleges select their teams by open tryouts from the student body (as is typical for most high schools - except those that blatantly recruit!).  This is obviously not the case for (most) college sports teams.  Aside from the rare 'true' walkon, coaches recruit their 10, 25, 80 (depending on sport and school) players, and the other 500, 1500, 25000 other students are utterly irrelevant to the team's success. 

Give me the right 40 recruits and I'll win the d1 national title with a student body of 40!

[TooForRaider]

OU#25,

I don't think any informed observer has ever thought the OAC was a one-team conference (after all, you nearly always also get a Pool C team).  Most would probably even say that the top half of the OAC is usually better than the top half of the WIAC.

But in comparing conferences, you gotta compare entire conferences.  The WIAC rarely has a team as weak as Heidi, Musky, Wilma, or 'etta usually are.  That is the difference (at least in my opinion).

I agree with you Ypsi, when comparing conferences in their entirety then the WIAC would have to be the stronger conference, and likewise, the upper half of the OAC might be slightly better than the same top half of WIAC.  However, i find it abit hard to compare conferences on a level playing field. Its more like comparing apples and oranges when the WIAC has 60,000+ student enrollment compared to the OAC having just over 20,000. The enrollment of Eau-Claire and Oshkosh alone exceeds all the OAC combined! Even the largest OAC enrollment, assuming its BW at 3400+, is well under the UW-Platteville or UW-River Falls both just over 5000. There might be some legitimacy to moving to D2 when you start pushing the sizes these schools are chiming in with! JMO  Makes me wonder what LK would do with those numbers to work with at Mount.  

Student enrollment is relevant ONLY if you assume that colleges select their teams by open tryouts from the student body (as is typical for most high schools - except those that blatantly recruit!).  This is obviously not the case for (most) college sports teams.  Aside from the rare 'true' walkon, coaches recruit their 10, 25, 80 (depending on sport and school) players, and the other 500, 1500, 25000 other students are utterly irrelevant to the team's success. 

Give me the right 40 recruits and I'll win the d1 national title with a student body of 40!

Enrollment is not as big of a deal as tuition. The Wisconsin schools have tuitions that are FAR less than those of the OAC, NCAC, or almost any conference you pick. 

That is almost an immeasurable fact when recruiting.

[Mr. Ypsi]

OU#25,

I don't think any informed observer has ever thought the OAC was a one-team conference (after all, you nearly always also get a Pool C team).  Most would probably even say that the top half of the OAC is usually better than the top half of the WIAC.

But in comparing conferences, you gotta compare entire conferences.  The WIAC rarely has a team as weak as Heidi, Musky, Wilma, or 'etta usually are.  That is the difference (at least in my opinion).

I agree with you Ypsi, when comparing conferences in their entirety then the WIAC would have to be the stronger conference, and likewise, the upper half of the OAC might be slightly better than the same top half of WIAC.  However, i find it abit hard to compare conferences on a level playing field. Its more like comparing apples and oranges when the WIAC has 60,000+ student enrollment compared to the OAC having just over 20,000. The enrollment of Eau-Claire and Oshkosh alone exceeds all the OAC combined! Even the largest OAC enrollment, assuming its BW at 3400+, is well under the UW-Platteville or UW-River Falls both just over 5000. There might be some legitimacy to moving to D2 when you start pushing the sizes these schools are chiming in with! JMO  Makes me wonder what LK would do with those numbers to work with at Mount.  

Student enrollment is relevant ONLY if you assume that colleges select their teams by open tryouts from the student body (as is typical for most high schools - except those that blatantly recruit!).  This is obviously not the case for (most) college sports teams.  Aside from the rare 'true' walkon, coaches recruit their 10, 25, 80 (depending on sport and school) players, and the other 500, 1500, 25000 other students are utterly irrelevant to the team's success. 

Give me the right 40 recruits and I'll win the d1 national title with a student body of 40!

Enrollment is not as big of a deal as tuition. The Wisconsin schools have tuitions that are FAR less than those of the OAC, NCAC, or almost any conference you pick. 

That is almost an immeasurable fact when recruiting.

I was commenting only on the enrollment post.  Davidson is d1 in basketball, and may be smaller than any OAC school (I haven't checked for sure).

I do NOT want to get into a public vs. private debate (it has been beaten to death on many boards - each category has its pluses and minuses).  Just note that there can be a huge difference between list price and final cost - with grants (NOT loans, grants), I know a number of people who got private school educations for less than they would have paid at a public school.  Not the norm, I'll concede, but it happens.

(And, FWIW, I'm a fan of IWU, which I believe is the most expensive 'list price' school in the CCIW; I am NOT defending the WIAC, per se! )

[altor]

I do not understand why a conference would not play each member every year, 9 teams, 8 conference games.

On the other side of the Earlham move, I'm also interested in seeing if the HCAC continues with a full round-robin now that they have 9 football teams.

[HSCTiger74]

OU#25,

I don't think any informed observer has ever thought the OAC was a one-team conference (after all, you nearly always also get a Pool C team).  Most would probably even say that the top half of the OAC is usually better than the top half of the WIAC.

But in comparing conferences, you gotta compare entire conferences.  The WIAC rarely has a team as weak as Heidi, Musky, Wilma, or 'etta usually are.  That is the difference (at least in my opinion).

I agree with you Ypsi, when comparing conferences in their entirety then the WIAC would have to be the stronger conference, and likewise, the upper half of the OAC might be slightly better than the same top half of WIAC.  However, i find it abit hard to compare conferences on a level playing field. Its more like comparing apples and oranges when the WIAC has 60,000+ student enrollment compared to the OAC having just over 20,000. The enrollment of Eau-Claire and Oshkosh alone exceeds all the OAC combined! Even the largest OAC enrollment, assuming its BW at 3400+, is well under the UW-Platteville or UW-River Falls both just over 5000. There might be some legitimacy to moving to D2 when you start pushing the sizes these schools are chiming in with! JMO  Makes me wonder what LK would do with those numbers to work with at Mount.  

Student enrollment is relevant ONLY if you assume that colleges select their teams by open tryouts from the student body (as is typical for most high schools - except those that blatantly recruit!).  This is obviously not the case for (most) college sports teams.  Aside from the rare 'true' walkon, coaches recruit their 10, 25, 80 (depending on sport and school) players, and the other 500, 1500, 25000 other students are utterly irrelevant to the team's success. 

Give me the right 40 recruits and I'll win the d1 national title with a student body of 40!

Enrollment is not as big of a deal as tuition. The Wisconsin schools have tuitions that are FAR less than those of the OAC, NCAC, or almost any conference you pick. 

That is almost an immeasurable fact when recruiting.

I was commenting only on the enrollment post.  Davidson is d1 in basketball, and may be smaller than any OAC school (I haven't checked for sure).
I do NOT want to get into a public vs. private debate (it has been beaten to death on many boards - each category has its pluses and minuses).  Just note that there can be a huge difference between list price and final cost - with grants (NOT loans, grants), I know a number of people who got private school educations for less than they would have paid at a public school.  Not the norm, I'll concede, but it happens.

(And, FWIW, I'm a fan of IWU, which I believe is the most expensive 'list price' school in the CCIW; I am NOT defending the WIAC, per se! )

Not that it's the focus of the discussion, but I checked and Davidson, at 1700 undergrads, is slightly larger than Heidelberg, Marietta and Wilmington but smaller than all the rest (according to Wikipedia).

[Mr. Ypsi]

HSCTiger74,

Now that is being a 'trivia nerd' above and beyond the call of duty!   +k