FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[JK]

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100227/SPORTS0203/302270026

Manny Matsakis has a new job.

Wonder if he will stay for longer than a year? 

[Dr. Acula]

As someone with a mom who is a foot soldier in the Catholic army (product of Catholic HS, teaches in a Parochial elementary school) I don't know that they can ever deter recruiting.  Those schools have to recruit to survive.  I used to think it was just about sports, but I remember my mom celebrating because a family with 5 young kids decided to send their children to Catholic school instead of public.  They flat out need students.  If they play sports, fine, but they honestly don't care.  They just need the tuition checks from anyone willing to pay for private schools.  And even then the schools are struggling.  There are rumors circulating again that Mooney and Ursuline will merge.  Similar ones have been floated about St. Thomas and Central in the last year. 

[seventiesraider]

 I'm thinking that if Ohio goes to State wide open enrollment the point is almost mute because the argument about having to take local kids is gone. Problem then goes to places like Windham which will empty out if kids can go somewhere else.

[TooForRaider]

I think if they had asked the coaches and athletes, the response would have been totally different.  I, for one, am against splitting the private schools out of the OHSAA or into their own division.  If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best, right?  That's what all you Mount fans keep saying, and the rest of us OAC "sheep," as Carroll Streaks called us, keep professing.  We keep saying that MUC makes the conference BETTER.  Likewise, I feel the private schools make the OAC better.  I just don't know how you could stand up and call yourself "State Champion" if you won a "title" that other schools couldn't compete for.  The inverse to that is to somehow deny a kid going to a private school (usually for a better education than is offered by the local public schools- especially in Ohio's big cities) the opportunity to compete for a state title just because he/ she is going to a place to better him/herself academically (in most- but not all- cases).  Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

What we need to do is stop the active recruiting.  Despite private schools' insitence that it doesn't happen, we all know it does.  If a kid wants to go to a private school, fine, but let them make that decision and let mom and dad pay for it, not have a coach approach a kid and sell them on a better education and then find a rich alum to pay a "scholarship" to get the kid to the school at no cost to the family.  That's the issue here and that's what creates the competitive imbalance.

FWIW...

The OAC and high school sports is comparing apples and oranges. Of course to be the best you want to beat the best, but not if the best has an obvious advantage. In the OAC there is an equal playing field. In high school it is completely different. They aren't the same at all unless you tell MUC "only recruit from Maine. but the other schools can recruit anywhere including Maine." To compare the two is absolutely ridiculous. Now in high school you have public schools drawing from one district and the private schools can accept kids from virtually every corner of the state. It is openly and obviously unfair no matter how you put it.

[JK]

perhaps the OAC and OHSAA comparison was off, but as a former athlete if I had won a high school state title, I wouldn't feel my state title was really legit unless all the schools in Ohio, both public and private, had the ability to win it.  Then I could truly and unequivocally say I was the "State champ" and not just the "public school state champ" or "private school state champ." 

[Knightstalker]

perhaps the OAC and OHSAA comparison was off, but as a former athlete if I had won a high school state title, I wouldn't feel my state title was really legit unless all the schools in Ohio, both public and private, had the ability to win it.  Then I could truly and unequivocally say I was the "State champ" and not just the "public school state champ" or "private school state champ." 

In NJ for most sports but football I believe they have the state public and parachocial group championships and then the champions of each group participate in a Tournament of Champions sort of playoff to determine the overall state champ.  In basketball in is usually a Catholic school like St. Anthonys or St. Patricks.

[raiderpa]

I believe that the Capital women's basketball dominance actually began with Laurie Pirtle.  She continued on to the University of Cincinnati, but her teams at Cap were incredible.

[ace]

Everyone is looking at the wrong way. People blame the parochial schools for "taking" the public school athletes. No one is "taken" they are given reasons to attend the parochial system. If you want to keep kids in the public system give them a reason.
Also:
1. open enrollment is an equalizer in many locations.
2. in sub-standard systems the voucher system is a gift to parochial schools.
3. Most believe, (I say most, and I say believe) one will get a better education in the parochial system.
4. Not unlike Mount "success breeds success"
5. Personal experience: I had 3 kids attend a parochial high school. Oldest (now graduating from law school) received a great deal of financial aid, 3rd in class in high school.
Second son All-Ohio in football, all conference the whole deal, received about half as much.Was in top 10 % of class.
Daughter received the most money, good student but since we had 2 in college, she got the most money. (God love her can't chew gum and walk as far as athletics.)

[seventiesraider]

Sorry Ace, I couldn't agree less, but that's not the point of this forum

[TooForRaider]

Everyone is looking at the wrong way. People blame the parochial schools for "taking" the public school athletes. No one is "taken" they are given reasons to attend the parochial system. If you want to keep kids in the public system give them a reason.
Also:
1. open enrollment is an equalizer in many locations.
2. in sub-standard systems the voucher system is a gift to parochial schools.
3. Most believe, (I say most, and I say believe) one will get a better education in the parochial system.
4. Not unlike Mount "success breeds success"
5. Personal experience: I had 3 kids attend a parochial high school. Oldest (now graduating from law school) received a great deal of financial aid, 3rd in class in high school.
Second son All-Ohio in football, all conference the whole deal, received about half as much.Was in top 10 % of class.
Daughter received the most money, good student but since we had 2 in college, she got the most money. (God love her can't chew gum and walk as far as athletics.)

I for one am grateful for your 2nd son....he's in my wedding! Plus, he gets his goodlooks from his old man.

[ace]

I have no problem with that. But,no kid leaves a system without looking at as " going to greener pastures". But you are right, this is not the place. Maybe sometime I'll meet you at the hood.

[ace]

That's that law school education talking. Congrats by the way see you in June.

[reality check]

I read an article about Alter HS during the playoffs that made a big push for them to be counted separately.  I see the argument but I disagree.  As an athlete in the parochial school system I saw great teams and saw some pretty piss-poor ones so recruiting doesn't necessarily trump all.  I have heard of other states using the separate systems (I think CA is another state that keeps private schools apart from public schools).  If they were to segregate the system I would hope that they included some sort of tourney or championship game like KS explained in NJ because a state championship that didn't put you into competition with the rest of the state is a bit fraud like JK stated.  Of course, this all sounds like a lot of arguing to fix something that's not entirely broken by not really fixing anything in the first place.

[snoop dawg]

Everyone is looking at the wrong way. People blame the parochial schools for "taking" the public school athletes. No one is "taken" they are given reasons to attend the parochial system. If you want to keep kids in the public system give them a reason.
Also:
1. open enrollment is an equalizer in many locations.
2. in sub-standard systems the voucher system is a gift to parochial schools.
3. Most believe, (I say most, and I say believe) one will get a better education in the parochial system.
4. Not unlike Mount "success breeds success"
5. Personal experience: I had 3 kids attend a parochial high school. Oldest (now graduating from law school) received a great deal of financial aid, 3rd in class in high school.
Second son All-Ohio in football, all conference the whole deal, received about half as much.Was in top 10 % of class.
Daughter received the most money, good student but since we had 2 in college, she got the most money. (God love her can't chew gum and walk as far as athletics.)

This is an ongoing and raging debate in So. Cal for the past few years.  My son went to an all boys Catholic HS instead of his local public school and the recruiting word was thrown all over the place.  Private schools have some advantages in terms of athletics and some disadvantages.  Some of the public schools out here have 3000 to 5000 kids.  And, they have a farm system for football.  Each community has a youth football program that is a mini me of the local high school program.  What an advantage it is to have kids playing football for 3 to 6 years before they enter high school and run the same systems as the high school.

The academic advantages of a private school out here far outweigh the publics especially if your kid has to go to an LA city school.  Many privates sell that issue to attract the bet athletes.

We still have one champion between publics and privates and I hope it stays that way.

[TooForRaider]

I read an article about Alter HS during the playoffs that made a big push for them to be counted separately.  I see the argument but I disagree.  As an athlete in the parochial school system I saw great teams and saw some pretty piss-poor ones so recruiting doesn't necessarily trump all.  I have heard of other states using the separate systems (I think CA is another state that keeps private schools apart from public schools).  If they were to segregate the system I would hope that they included some sort of tourney or championship game like KS explained in NJ because a state championship that didn't put you into competition with the rest of the state is a bit fraud like JK stated.  Of course, this all sounds like a lot of arguing to fix something that's not entirely broken by not really fixing anything in the first place.

I agree that there really isn't a solution that can solve the problems. Truth is, it is probably too far down the path to do anything substantive. But, the fact remains that the parochial schools have an advantage which is undeniable and that is shown by the percentage of state championships won by them.