FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[OAC Yahoo]

The Mid-American Conference is your example

2011- Northern Illinois
2010- Miami
2009- Central Michigan
2008- Buffalo
2007- Central Michigan
2006- Central Michigan
2005- Akron
2004- Toledo
2003- Miami
2002- Marshall
2001- Toledo
2000- Marshall

8 different champions since 2000


SEC
2011- LSU
2010- Auburn
2009- Alabama
2008- Florida
2007- LSU
2006- Florida
2005- Georgia
2004- Auburn
2003- LSU
2002- Georgia
2001- LSU
2000- Florida

5 different champions since 2000

Parity at the highest and lowest level of college football

Ohio Athletic Conference
2011- Mount Union
2010- Mount Union
2009- Mount Union
2008- Mount Union
2007- Mount Union
2006- Mount Union
2005- Mount Union
2004- Mount Union
2003- Mount Union
2002- Mount Union
2001- Mount Union
2000- Mount Union
Etc etc etc

[OAC Yahoo]

Please everyone understand- All the respect in the world for what the Raider program with the greatest coach in the history of college football. I am just wondering out loud how good is it really for the other 9 schools who are 2-178 against them in the last 20 years.

[Pat Coleman]

If they can't hack it, they should leave. Not sure it did much for Hiram, though. It's not Mount Union's responsibility to look out for other OAC football teams, just as it's not Kenyon's responsibility to look out for other NCAC swimming teams.

[TooForRaider]

If they can't hack it, they should leave. Not sure it did much for Hiram, though. It's not Mount Union's responsibility to look out for other OAC football teams, just as it's not Kenyon's responsibility to look out for other NCAC swimming teams.

Fantastic post responding to an idiotic one.

[smedindy]

At Wabash, the swim team knows they're competing for third in the NCAC meet, but they're going after that third place hard every year. No one thought Denison would catch Kenyon in swimming but they finally did.

Hiram's and Earlham's football programs have not benefited from the move to 'easier' competition.

Football is just one small piece of the OAC puzzle. Let's not turn D-3 into D-1A and move around just for the sake of football. We've got classes and labs to get to!

[OAC Yahoo]

Ok I surrender. I was just playing devil's advocate. Nobody seems to think that having one school dominate the league for 20 years is a bad thing. I have officially raised the white flag. The OAC is a better league this way for all ten teams.

[Pat Coleman]

Football is just one small piece of the OAC puzzle. Let's not turn D-3 into D-1A and move around just for the sake of football. We've got classes and labs to get to!

+1

[Desertraider]

Ok I surrender. I was just playing devil's advocate. Nobody seems to think that having one school dominate the league for 20 years is a bad thing. I have officially raised the white flag. The OAC is a better league this way for all ten teams.

White flag be damned! Scholarships don't bring parity ya jackwagon. If they did then Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, etc.. would have accomplished something - not to mention the MAC schools. Talent goes where talent wants. As far as admissions are concerned as a method of parity - ya got to get into the school and Mount is not the easiest school (nor the hardest) to get into. The admissions standards are on a level field with the rest of the OAC - this is not a football school. I can say this because I have had a number of Mount players in class (Garcon, Shorts, Ekkens, Rocco, Nickoli, and the hits keep coming) and they have to perform in the class room. On your financial aid parity issue - maybe the alumni at the other schools need to step up and give back so the other schools have more money to dole out. However, that didn't bring parity for Hiram (get financial aid packages - didn't help). Is one dominant team good for the OAC - maybe and maybe not. But I refuse to penalize a team for being better than the rest. My signature is from a quote LK gave to the Akron Beacon Journal. Maybe the rest of the OAC should read - put it on the boards - live it. Mount didnt become MOUNT by exploiting a rule or breaking them. They just quit bitchin' and made the effort to get better. It worked for UWW after 2 games with Mount. Those poor OAC schools play Mount every year! BWs coach quoted as saying 'he doesn't know what the formula is' is crap - you see it on the field EVERY YEAR! Open your eyes and make the effort! Either that or go to a weaker conference.And now I am done and will accept your white flag. Much like the French you raised it, much like the Vietnamese I chose to run it through you first.

[Bein_86]

If they can't hack it, they should leave. Not sure it did much for Hiram, though. It's not Mount Union's responsibility to look out for other OAC football teams, just as it's not Kenyon's responsibility to look out for other NCAC swimming teams.

I have a son playing on one of those other teams. Those teams need to make a greater committment if they want to compete and it can't be a one year thing. It has to be sustained each and every year by the players, coaches and administration and running away does not solve the issue.

Most people are not willing to make that demand on themselves and each other. You may get some in each area but to get everyone to buy in is difficult. The schools that do reap the rewards. ie..Mount and UWW and the like.

You can't complain you just have to do the work and have a long term plan, it won't happen overnight. It didn't for Mount, it won't for anyone else.

[repete]

The pussification of America is almost complete.  Not only does everyone in youth soccer deserve a trophy, but OAC football too?

Agree completely with the point of your post. What people trying to "adjust" the system don't realize: if you somehow penalize the best team the title is diminished. If "their team" if gets to the Stagg or wins a conference title after an "adjustment", they will be playing for a less meaningful title. Just ain't worth as much.

In some ways, it's like a golf tournament: would you rather be low net or low gross?

Interesting point on the details, in our area the "participation trophies" in youth soccer end after second grade. The youth football programs give every kid one through fifth grade.

[badgerwarhawk]

i am too lazy to look it up-what's the other purple teams record for the last 7-8 years, and in that weak conference(kidding btw)

In the last seven years, UWW's record against their conference foes:

La Crosse  8-0
Platteville  7-0
River Falls  7-0
Stout  7-0
Oshkosh  7-0
Eau Claire  78-0
Stevens Point  6-1

That's 49-1 in a division that some think is the toughest in D3. 

Why do I only go back 7 years?  Their turn-around started when they decided to be the best, they had to play the best, and scheduled a home-and-home with MUC in 2002 and 2003.  They lost 44-21 and 40-17.  But they learned what they had to do to match MUC and have done exactly that!

And I also agree with HSCoach.  HailRaiders ... Shut Up!

And Ric, you don't say much anymore, but what you say resonates!

One more win you forgot. In '08, we played Eau Claire twice.  They also had a home and home with St. John's in 02 & 03. Lost there 42-18, then didn't play the return game because St. John's didn't want to travel that far for a game (or so the legend has it). But, by that time, I think Brez had a pretty good idea what to do.

9-0 against LaCrosse if you count the win in the 2006 playoffs.

[SUADC]

SEC
2011- LSU
2010- Auburn
2009- Alabama
2008- Florida
2007- LSU
2006- Florida
2005- Georgia
2004- Auburn
2003- LSU
2002- Georgia
2001- LSU
2000- Florida

5 different champions since 2000

IMHO, I believe that each year the SEC comes out with one of those 5 teams and supposedly wins the championship out right, because of perception. Don't get me wrong, the top voted team that comes out the SEC looks great in its televised games and no doubt proves it on the field against the other voted in teams in the NC. However, look at the last 11-12 national champions over this time frame. I know I'll be stating the obvious, but over the last 10-11 years, there has only been one-time when there hasn't been any controversy when the SEC team won.

2011 - SEC TEAM - Two teams from same conference w/out playoff playing in NC, shows that the system is totally flawed.
2010 - Auburn - TCU still undefeated, system flawed.
2009 - Alabama - Okay, only undefeated team.
2008 - Florida (13-1) - Utah (1st Place MW) finishes the season undefeated after beating Alabama (2nd place SEC team). Also, Boise State finishes the season undefeated losing to TCU (2nd Place MW team). - System Flawed
2007 - LSU (12-2) - Both USC & Missouri finish 12-2 neither playing a head-2-head against LSU or OSU - System Flawed
2006 - Florida (13-1) - Boise State finishes season undefeated. Shows system is flawed.
2005 - Texas (13-0) - Okay, only undefeated team. Also, greatest NC game IMHO.
2004 - USC (11-0) - Okay, only undefeated team. They really wanted a SEC team to play for the championship, but had to make means for what happen in 2003.
2003 - LSU or USC (1-loss teams) - Wow, SEC has a championship game and USC looses a triple overtime game to CAL in a rivalry game, never know what's going to happen in a rivalry game. Nevertheless, system flaw.
2002 - Ohio State (14-0) - Okay, only undefeated team. One of the greatest upsets in NC history IMHO.
2001 - Miami (12-0) - Okay, by far in my lifetime, greatest NC team ever. Also, Nebraska plays for the NC after losing the Big 12 championship in a blowout, while the team that beat Nebraska (Colorado) gets blown out by Oregon. Media perception, Oregon showed it on the field why they deserved to play in the NC game.
2000 -Oklahoma (13-0) - Okay, only undefeated team. Great!

[formerd3db]

desertraider:
You make some legit points, although I would slightly disagree in that parity has spread the talent out just a bit in some situations, yet overall not as you discussed.  Anyway, I would also be curious as to what your opinion then is regarding a conference like our MIAA.  I'm throwing out some aspects here for your consideration.  In the early 1970's it was Alma/Adrian dominating; in the mid 1970's to the /1980's, Hope and Albion dominated (occastionally Adrian snuck in there); the 1990's it was all Albion.  In addition, you mention the alumni giving.  Hope has tons of $ and their alumni give well.  However, their financial aid packages just do not match with those of other DIII schools (I guess a choice of the administration) and that has frustrated the coaching staff in that they loose some very talented players to other schools just because of that alone.  Also, how do you see the DII scholarships - those have definitely affected the MIAA teams (and the various MIAA coaching staffs agree on this).  I'm not sure why that hasn't affected the Ohio schools as there are certainly some increasing #s of DII programs in that state (other than perhaps some of the schools themselves, i.e. campuses are not as appealing - for whatever reason - than some of the other GLIAC schools which are competitors in the recruiting process with MIAA schools and/or other DIII schools in our region).  Just curious as to your own thoughts regarding these other aspects._

[Desertraider]

As far as alumni giving goes it depends on "where" they give. Are they giving to funds for upgrades to dorms, libraries, etc.. or to financial aid programs. At Hiram the Garfield scholarships are granted and largely funded by alumni donations but they also have other financial assistance awards funded by alumni donations. It is different for every school. The DII issue is a bigger issue in some areas than others. Most DII schools, at least in Ohio, don't have the same exposure or reputation as Mount and BW etc. I don't know of lost recruits to Ashland or the newest DII ohio program Notre Dame College - but I think much of that comes down to where/how recruiting is done. Notre Dame (Ohio) seems to be willing to take anybody with a heartbeat for thier football program. Doesn't mean they get a scholarship. Michigan has at least 1 legit DII program with national attention - don't know that Ohio has that. I mean Ashland plays Mount JV - but Mount wins those games (not sure about this year but last I checked Mount held the edge at 6 or 7-1). Alot of this is the result of administrations at these schools. When I was at Hiram they seemed to get an awful lot of promising talent - but they flunked out or dropped out after a term or 2. The schools Mount recruits against in this area ar basically OAC schools like John Carroll and BW, NAIA schools like Walsh and Malone, MAC schools like Kent State, Akron and then Youngstown State. I know I missed some and didn't mention the OAC nearby schools like OTT and CAP - but the point is that Mount doesn't get all the guys they may want but they get enough guys willing to buy into the system in place (you may not play for a couple years, or start ever, but you will win if you give it your all). Parity is the spreading out of talent my point was that all D1 schools have the same # of scholarships - yet they are not even. The "talent" (i.e. the 3 and 4 star recruits) ends up normally at power schools (USC, OSU, LSU, etc.). These players could all decide to flood Indiana or the MAC but they haven't. They would probably have more of an immediate impact if they did (can you guess how many freshman would start at Indiana if they landed the top recruiting class on year?). For me this all comes down to the coaches and players of the other teams. LAX dominated the WIAC - UWW had enough and changed it; the same can be said for a number of other conferences. Anyway - just my humble opinion.

[D O.C.]

From the Great Northwest (via Southern California, who people enjoy disliking more)

These pages are wonderful without the cut and paste of Ric's DO NOT RESPOND.

I have to be satisfied with the NCAA brackets this year. It allowed a bit of variety for the NWC champion.

Rooting for the great American tradition underdog this year puts me in Mount Union's camp?
OK.

I actually root for UMU to be good at some other sport - men's baseball / women's softball -  so the NWC champ has a chance to play across from that venerated name.