FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[PurpleSuit]

a short break from the UMHB/Strength of Schedule bellyaching....

Kyle Miller has been moved from the Colts practice squad to the active roster, making it three Purple Raiders on active NFL rosters.

and Capital's coach has stepped down from the mess in Bexley. 
http://capital.edu/Athletics/Athletics_News/Football_News/Stanford_Steps_Down_as_Head_Football_Coach_at_Capital.aspx

[skunks_sidekick]

I think UMU's recruiting might have just become a little bit harder.  With the Dennison retirement at Walsh, I think Walsh has the opportunity to hire a dynamic, YOUNGER coach.  With the $$ they are putting into facilities, my guess is an on-campus football stadium isn't that far away.  In my opinion, that makes it just a bit tougher for Mount.

LK has already said it's much tougher now with all the D-II's (relatively speaking) in the NE Ohio area.   I think Dennison (although an honorable, good man), was the sole reason Walsh has underachieved the last five years.

[Raider 68]

I think UMU's recruiting might have just become a little bit harder.  With the Dennison retirement at Walsh, I think Walsh has the opportunity to hire a dynamic, YOUNGER coach.  With the $$ they are putting into facilities, my guess is an on-campus football stadium isn't that far away.  In my opinion, that makes it just a bit tougher for Mount.

LK has already said it's much tougher now with all the D-II's (relatively speaking) in the NE Ohio area.   I think Dennison (although an honorable, good man), was the sole reason Walsh has underachieved the last five years.

Shunks_,

Agree, Walsh, unlike Mount Union is borrowing almost all dollars for their building program. They
do not have a long heritage of alumni contributors, so while a stadium could happen, it will
take some real creative financing given the huge debt they already have to deal with.

That said, a vibrate young coach with good recruiting skills will indeed make it tougher, but they
have to show some winning seasons to bring in the athletes.

[theaprof]

Congrats to Kyle!  I always thought he would have a good chance.  Good size, good speed, and soft hands.  Hope they give him some real opportunities.

[Raider 68]

Congrats to Kyle!  I always thought he would have a good chance.  Good size, good speed, and soft hands.  Hope they give him some real opportunities.

theaprof.

Funny, I just checked the Colts sight a day ago to see if Kyle had been brought up. Congrats
to him, talented and fine young man!

[PurpleSuit]

I think that any major negative impact on Mount Union recruiting by Walsh and/or Malone is a ways down the road.  I would think that either program would need to sustain some level of success before taking away potential Purple Raiders.  The scholarship vs financial aid difference is not that great to off-set the difference in wins and losses.  An on-campus stadium could be a program changer for Walsh though. 

[emma17]

emma, but I'm sure the school, fans, and community of Naperville felt the same way about hosting a game.   By the criteria then in place, they would have been 'screwed over', just as Whitewater felt they got 'jobbed'.

At least the communities are close enough together that no one was terribly inconvenienced.  (Except perhaps the local restaurant and bar owners!)

Can we get back to bellyaching yet?

[HScoach]

I think that any major negative impact on Mount Union recruiting by Walsh and/or Malone is a ways down the road.  I would think that either program would need to sustain some level of success before taking away potential Purple Raiders.  The scholarship vs financial aid difference is not that great to off-set the difference in wins and losses.  An on-campus stadium could be a program changer for Walsh though.

Walsh and Malone are already cheaper than Mount.  Throw in a partial scholarship and they get a lot cheaper.  Add in the inherent, though misconceived, notion that most 17 year old HS kids have that the lure of D1 is better than 1AA is better than D2 is better than D3 and it gets tougher to compete with the D2 label of Walsh & Malone.   

There are quite a few HS players that will take the highest level offer they can get, regardless of whether it's a good fit academically, or good FB program, or whether the $ is any different because it feels bigtime.  Not saying it's wrong for the kids to aspire to play as high a level as possible, just saying it isn't always the right choice regardless of the final price paid.   

Overall as the economy stagnates and the cost of college keeps going up, I think the recruiting is going to continue to get even harder and harder for the smaller, expensive private schools.   As a guy who is unfortunately paying for a daughter in college who is playing soccer, if athletic $ would have been available for her at D2 school I can tell you with 99.99% certainty that she'd be going to school there.   

[raiderpa]

I dont think Walsh has to put a ton of money into a stadium.  They already have a beautiful field and lighting system in place.  The locker rooms are a very short walk across (under) the street.  Some standard bleachers, restrooms, and concession facilities and they are in business.  They could go do this by next season if they desired, it would not really be that difficult,  or costly.

[formerd3db]

I think that any major negative impact on Mount Union recruiting by Walsh and/or Malone is a ways down the road.  I would think that either program would need to sustain some level of success before taking away potential Purple Raiders.  The scholarship vs financial aid difference is not that great to off-set the difference in wins and losses.  An on-campus stadium could be a program changer for Walsh though.

Walsh and Malone are already cheaper than Mount.  Throw in a partial scholarship and they get a lot cheaper.  Add in the inherent, though misconceived, notion that most 17 year old HS kids have that the lure of D1 is better than 1AA is better than D2 is better than D3 and it gets tougher to compete with the D2 label of Walsh & Malone.   

There are quite a few HS players that will take the highest level offer they can get, regardless of whether it's a good fit academically, or good FB program, or whether the $ is any different because it feels bigtime.  Not saying it's wrong for the kids to aspire to play as high a level as possible, just saying it isn't always the right choice regardless of the final price paid.   

Overall as the economy stagnates and the cost of college keeps going up, I think the recruiting is going to continue to get even harder and harder for the smaller, expensive private schools.   As a guy who is unfortunately paying for a daughter in college who is playing soccer, if athletic $ would have been available for her at D2 school I can tell you with 99.99% certainty that she'd be going to school there.   

HScoach:

Good post.  I agree with you entirely.  Several of us have had this same discussion for the past 3-4 years over on our MIAA board and that is exactly what is happening/has happened in Michigan.  With the GLIAC schools in Michigan and Ohio (along with the NAIA additions), the lure of a football scholarship has hurt the recruitment for all the MIAA schools.  Moreover, most of the GLIAC schools have upgraded and improved their stadiums and facilities to make it what is to be perceived as having that higher level feel i.e. DII.  Like many of the DIII schools, including many of the smallest of the latter (there are many, but I'll use our own MIAA Olivet, Kalamazoo as the most recent examples), these DII schools have to in order to maintain this modern era and "keep up with the Jones'" to use that too old cliche.

That said, I also think raiderpa is right as well. I can't imagine that Malone and Walsh won't do those improvements eventually, just like Urbana, Ohio Dominican, Findlay, Notre Dame College, Lake Erie, even Wayne State and Northland have to name a few.  Look at Ashland also.  While Mount has a dynasty in regards to all this and perhaps it might not affect them as much, I can't be imagine that it won't affect some of these other Ohio DIII schools like it has in our MIAA.

Unless a student-athlete's parents can afford to send them to one of the DIII private schools and that player is talented enough to play at the DII level (or in some cases higher), they are going to take the partial football scholarship for all the reasons you mention, i.e. the perception of the scholarship level of football and simply the lower cost of the education.  Many families just can't afford to do otherwise.  Anyway, that is what has hurt the MIAA talent level over the past decade (most of the MIAA Head Coaches believe that as well) and I (as well as others) don't see that changing, at least not for a long time or perhaps never.  Similar to many other aspects affecting our nation now, the overall situation is just not like it was before.   

[ExTartanPlayer]

I think that any major negative impact on Mount Union recruiting by Walsh and/or Malone is a ways down the road.  I would think that either program would need to sustain some level of success before taking away potential Purple Raiders.  The scholarship vs financial aid difference is not that great to off-set the difference in wins and losses.  An on-campus stadium could be a program changer for Walsh though.

Walsh and Malone are already cheaper than Mount.  Throw in a partial scholarship and they get a lot cheaper.  Add in the inherent, though misconceived, notion that most 17 year old HS kids have that the lure of D1 is better than 1AA is better than D2 is better than D3 and it gets tougher to compete with the D2 label of Walsh & Malone.   

There are quite a few HS players that will take the highest level offer they can get, regardless of whether it's a good fit academically, or good FB program, or whether the $ is any different because it feels bigtime.  Not saying it's wrong for the kids to aspire to play as high a level as possible, just saying it isn't always the right choice regardless of the final price paid.    

Overall as the economy stagnates and the cost of college keeps going up, I think the recruiting is going to continue to get even harder and harder for the smaller, expensive private schools.   As a guy who is unfortunately paying for a daughter in college who is playing soccer, if athletic $ would have been available for her at D2 school I can tell you with 99.99% certainty that she'd be going to school there.   

HScoach:

You are correct - I agree with you entirely.  Several of us have had this same discussion for the past 3-4 years over on our MIAA board and that is exactly what is happening/has happened in Michigan.  With the GLIAC schools in Michigan and Ohio (along with the NAIA additions), the lure of a football scholarship has hurt the recruitment for all the MIAA schools.  Moreover, most of the GLIAC schools have upgraded and improved their stadiums and facilities to make it what is to be perceived as having that higher level feel i.e. DII.  LIke many of the DIII schools, including many of the smallest of the latter, these DII schools have to in order to maintain this modern era and "keep up with the Jones'" to use that too old cliche.

Unless a student-athlete's parents can afford to send them to one of the DIII private schools and that player is talented enough to play at the DII level (or in some cases higher), they are going to take the partial football scholarship for all the reasons you mention, i.e. the perception of the scholarship level of football and simply the lower cost of the education.  Many families just can't afford to do otherwise.  Anyway, that is what has hurt the MIAA talent level over the past decade (most of the MIAA Head Coaches believe that as well) and I (as well as others) don't see that changing, at least not for a long time or perhaps never.  Similar to many other aspects affection our nation now, the overall situation is just not like it was before.

Not sure it adds much to this discussion that hasn't already been said, but yet another perspective on the "take the highest level offer they can get" phenomena (I am leaving the financial aspect out of this - I will agree that if scholarship money is offered AND money is somewhat tight for a family, that there is good reason to take the offer even if it may not be the best "playing" opportunity):

1) I was lightly "recruited" by a couple of Ivy schools and Patriot schools coming out of HS.  Most of that "interest" consisted of form letters, whereupon I'd ask if I could come to campus for a visit with my family; generally, when the coaches actually saw me and realized I was a 5'11" and 225-pound offensive tackle without much room for growth, this "interest" quickly evaporated. 

Eventually, I figured out that I had a choice - show up and try out for a team, get the crap kicked out of me for four years on the scout team (a less-glamorous version of Rudy), and maybe get a few pity snaps as a senior...or go play Division III ball where I had a realistic chance of starting.

2) As a player at Carnegie Mellon, I had a work-study job making phone calls to prospective recruits.  Partially just to gather information (SAT score, GPA, height, weight, etc) and partially to talk things over with the kid and make a few notes for the coaching staff about his interest level.  Some kids would just say they flat-out weren't considering Division III schools because they were certain that a Division I-AA school or Division II school was going to offer them something. 

Part of me wanted to tell them "Just so you know, I was in your shoes three years ago, and those offers that you're expecting don't ALWAYS come through..." but usually I just demurred, figuring that if a kid was dead-set on playing at the highest level possible, that's what he was going to do anyway, and it wasn't worth wasting our time on recruiting him.

3) It's a different sport, but if anyone has read the book "Miracle of St. Anthony" (about a small high school basketball team in New Jersey), one player's journey through the recruiting process is documented in some detail.  He and his mother were absolutely CONVINCED that he was going to become an NBA player and decided early on that he was just taking the biggest offer he could get, regardless of whether it was the best place for him to be.  He watched as schools' interest waxed and waned (Indiana & Maryland both "offered" and eventually pulled their offers back when they realized he probably wasn't good enough), and to an outside observer it was obvious that his best fit was probably a Patriot/Ivy/Colonial school where he'd fit the academic profile and have a chance to play.  Instead, he took a desperation offer from Arkansas late in the recruiting process, ultimately transferred to William & Mary, and finally became a starter as a fifth-year senior.

The grass isn't always greenest at the big school, kids.

[D O.C.]

Always such valueable insight.
Now, let's get back to UMHB and UMU banter.

[bambord]

Congrats to Kyle!  I always thought he would have a good chance.  Good size, good speed, and soft hands.  Hope they give him some real opportunities.

theaprof.

Funny, I just checked the Colts sight a day ago to see if Kyle had been brought up. Congrats
to him, talented and fine young man!

68,

When theaprof checked their "sight", it was in need of glasses. 

But, I do agree, Kyle Miller reminds me of Heath Miller of the hated Pittsburgh Steelers.

pt

[ohiofan1954]

does Mt. take recruits away from Akron? Look at how bad the akron program has been for so long. It may have suffered one of it's greatest disasters last week. Also will the hiring of a big name coach, defensive coordinator and assistant athletic director bring in better recruits that might effect Mt? Yes I know Akron is a d1 school, but those of us that are mac fans might say in name only.

[raiderfan1983]

does Mt. take recruits away from Akron? Look at how bad the akron program has been for so long. It may have suffered one of it's greatest disasters last week. Also will the hiring of a big name coach, defensive coordinator and assistant athletic director bring in better recruits that might effect Mt? Yes I know Akron is a d1 school, but those of us that are mac fans might say in name only.

I don't think any changes made at Akron will negatively affect Mount.  I may be wrong here, but if a kid is D1 caliber (or even fringe D1 caliber in talking about Akron) he will most likely be getting interest from other "bigger" programs.  I don't think Mount is recruiting head to head against Akron where you would see a drop off in the program because of success at Akron.