FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[raiderpa]

How did Mount JV do against Ashland yesterday?

[Dr. Acula]

51-14 win is what I saw somewhere. bceagle can confirm though.

[SaintsFAN]

Hairston's biggest recruiting job is within his own team.  Until he can convince these kids to hang around for their sophomore season and beyond,  it will be just more of the same.  Only 3 seniors total on the 2-deep and few juniors.  Most of starters  were fresmen.   Almost every single backup was a freshman.

Same could be said for Capital.  Only 2 seniors (both on offense) in the starting 22, and only a handful juniors in the two deep.  By my count there are 17 or 18 freshmen in the two deep and another 16 or 17 sophs.   

Fellas -- 100% agree with your assessment.  I also wonder how much is influenced by the economy and whatnot (I don't want to get political in here).  If you're a kid who went to a school to play football your 1st Semester and your team isn't very good and THEN you get word during second semester that the financial aid package you got for your first year has been significantly cut for your 2nd year at the school.  I know PLENTY of kids this has happened to.  I just think with money being tighter in most cases, its harder for a kid to buy into a program that hasn't shown any real signs of life during their one season in the system.

[ohiofan1954]

I was wondering how many players dress for Wilmington road games? This has been a issue at other schools such as Oberlin. I was a game of theirs last year where only 36 players dressed. Also what would a average be for travelling squads?

[PurpleSuit]

I was wondering how many players dress for Wilmington road games? This has been a issue at other schools such as Oberlin. I was a game of theirs last year where only 36 players dressed. Also what would a average be for travelling squads?

just going off of the box score, it looks like 51 Quakers played with and 43 did not participate.  I don't think that Wilma's problem is lack of numbers, its lack of skill and experience. 

[PurpleSuit]

With all the talk about Wilmington and Capital's inefficiencies, it would probably be better for Mount to join a conference where half of the schools are unbeaten or one loss and the other half have not won more than a single game.  That conference sounds great! there would be  three teams that have a winning record overall.  The WIAC is sooooo tough, Wilma and Cap should aspire to be more like an Eau Claire or Stout.  Don't get me started on the ASC depth, its amazing the strength of these conferences.  Mount truly is lucky to be in the lame OAC, two top seven teams is nothing compared to the rest of the conferences.

[ExTartanPlayer]

...it would probably be better for Mount to join a conference where half of the schools are unbeaten or one loss and the other half have not won more than a single game.  That conference sounds great! there would be  three teams that have a winning record overall.  The WIAC is sooooo tough, Wilma and Cap should aspire to be more like an Eau Claire or Stout.

This probably isn't even worth arguing, but the WIAC's records are a bit depressed by the type of teams they tend to schedule in nonconference play.  Give the OAC teams three nonconference games each and schedule the same way the WIAC teams do and they'd have the same kind of carnage below Mount, JCU, and maybe Heidelberg.  Who else in the OAC would win a nonconference game against St. John's, St. Thomas, UMHB, North Central, etc?  The teams at the bottom of the WIAC all played good teams.  Nobody in that league plays any layups just for the sake of going 3-0 in nonconference play.

UW-Oshkosh also is an outlier that introduces a little bias to your "only three teams have a winning record overall" statistics.  Is there really any doubt that UWO is better than your typical "3-4" Division III team?

[PurpleSuit]

...it would probably be better for Mount to join a conference where half of the schools are unbeaten or one loss and the other half have not won more than a single game.  That conference sounds great! there would be  three teams that have a winning record overall.  The WIAC is sooooo tough, Wilma and Cap should aspire to be more like an Eau Claire or Stout.

This probably isn't even worth arguing, but the WIAC's records are a bit depressed by the type of teams they tend to schedule in nonconference play.  Give the OAC teams three nonconference games each and schedule the same way the WIAC teams do and they'd have the same kind of carnage below Mount, JCU, and maybe Heidelberg.  Who else in the OAC would win a nonconference game against St. John's, St. Thomas, UMHB, North Central, etc?  The teams at the bottom of the WIAC all played good teams.  Nobody in that league plays any layups just for the sake of going 3-0 in nonconference play.

UW-Oshkosh also is an outlier that introduces a little bias to your "only three teams have a winning record overall" statistics.  Is there really any doubt that UWO is better than your typical "3-4" Division III team?

I'm sure the bottom of the OAC could schedule some MIAC teams and lose all the same.  I guess we could give a half of a win or something for losing to a good team, especially if its close.  The WIAC doesn't have many wins, but they lost to good teams.

[ExTartanPlayer]

...it would probably be better for Mount to join a conference where half of the schools are unbeaten or one loss and the other half have not won more than a single game.  That conference sounds great! there would be  three teams that have a winning record overall.  The WIAC is sooooo tough, Wilma and Cap should aspire to be more like an Eau Claire or Stout.

This probably isn't even worth arguing, but the WIAC's records are a bit depressed by the type of teams they tend to schedule in nonconference play.  Give the OAC teams three nonconference games each and schedule the same way the WIAC teams do and they'd have the same kind of carnage below Mount, JCU, and maybe Heidelberg.  Who else in the OAC would win a nonconference game against St. John's, St. Thomas, UMHB, North Central, etc?  The teams at the bottom of the WIAC all played good teams.  Nobody in that league plays any layups just for the sake of going 3-0 in nonconference play.

UW-Oshkosh also is an outlier that introduces a little bias to your "only three teams have a winning record overall" statistics.  Is there really any doubt that UWO is better than your typical "3-4" Division III team?

I'm sure the bottom of the OAC could schedule some MIAC teams and lose all the same.  I guess we could give a half of a win or something for losing to a good team, especially if its close.  The WIAC doesn't have many wins, but they lost to good teams.

Yeah, you're correct they lost to those good teams, and there's a difference between scheduling tough games and actually winning those tough games.  I'm certainly not saying that the WIAC is the Big Ten (although it might actually be better, given the current state of the Big Ten).  But I do think it's at least worth acknowledging that, given the same nonconference slate(s) throughout the conference, that deceiving "only three teams have a winning record overall" is probably how pretty much every D3 conference would look at this point in the season.

[MUC57]

PurpleSuit et. al.

It's amazing that even though Mount Union is in such a "crappy" conference and is lucky to be there, they have the best playoff record in all of DIII. Eleven national championships makes me think they do pretty well against the best in DIII. The OAC may be "down" now, but hasn't always been so. Not too many years ago, it was believed that if the top four teams in the OAC each went to a different region in the playoffs, they would all meet in the national semifinals. Maybe would have never happened, but......?

Let's give credit where it's due. Go Raiders!

[PurpleSuit]

PurpleSuit et. al.

It's amazing that even though Mount Union is in such a "crappy" conference and is lucky to be there, they have the best playoff record in all of DIII. Eleven national championships makes me think they do pretty well against the best in DIII. The OAC may be "down" now, but hasn't always been so. Not too many years ago, it was believed that if the top four teams in the OAC each went to a different region in the playoffs, they would all meet in the national semifinals. Maybe would have never happened, but......?

Let's give credit where it's due. Go Raiders!

uhhh....

...it would probably be better for Mount to join a conference where half of the schools are unbeaten or one loss and the other half have not won more than a single game.  That conference sounds great! there would be  three teams that have a winning record overall.  The WIAC is sooooo tough, Wilma and Cap should aspire to be more like an Eau Claire or Stout.

This probably isn't even worth arguing, but the WIAC's records are a bit depressed by the type of teams they tend to schedule in nonconference play.  Give the OAC teams three nonconference games each and schedule the same way the WIAC teams do and they'd have the same kind of carnage below Mount, JCU, and maybe Heidelberg.  Who else in the OAC would win a nonconference game against St. John's, St. Thomas, UMHB, North Central, etc?  The teams at the bottom of the WIAC all played good teams.  Nobody in that league plays any layups just for the sake of going 3-0 in nonconference play.

UW-Oshkosh also is an outlier that introduces a little bias to your "only three teams have a winning record overall" statistics.  Is there really any doubt that UWO is better than your typical "3-4" Division III team?

I'm sure the bottom of the OAC could schedule some MIAC teams and lose all the same.  I guess we could give a half of a win or something for losing to a good team, especially if its close.  The WIAC doesn't have many wins, but they lost to good teams.

Yeah, you're correct they lost to those good teams, and there's a difference between scheduling tough games and actually winning those tough games.  I'm certainly not saying that the WIAC is the Big Ten (although it might actually be better, given the current state of the Big Ten).  But I do think it's at least worth acknowledging that, given the same nonconference slate(s) throughout the conference, that deceiving "only three teams have a winning record overall" is probably how pretty much every D3 conference would look at this point in the season.

a tough non-conference schedule doesn't mean much if you don't get wins. I believe Pat has a saying about its not who you lose to that matters come playoff time.  I just find it amazing that around the boards, people are ripping Mount for their schedule and amount of blowouts, when it is pretty similar, if not stronger than the rest of the title contenders.  Is it better to play a couple of decent opponents (UWP UWSP), and the rest above junk or to play the best inter-conference game nationally (JCU), one above average (Berg), a couple above junk (ONU, Ott, BW) and the rest junk?  It seems like the boards (maybe voters?) are getting carried away debating our junk vs their junk.   

[jknezek]

PurpleSuit et. al.

It's amazing that even though Mount Union is in such a "crappy" conference and is lucky to be there, they have the best playoff record in all of DIII. Eleven national championships makes me think they do pretty well against the best in DIII. The OAC may be "down" now, but hasn't always been so. Not too many years ago, it was believed that if the top four teams in the OAC each went to a different region in the playoffs, they would all meet in the national semifinals. Maybe would have never happened, but......?

Let's give credit where it's due. Go Raiders!

Not too many years ago Bridgewater was a Stagg Bowl team. It doesn't mean anything for how good the Eagles are these days. UMU will be there in the end regardless of whether the rest of the OAC is any good, but UMU's success doesn't mean the OAC is particularly good. Thank god for a real playoff where none of this "your junk is worse than my junk" really matters when the Walnut and Bronze is won.

[MUC57]

jknezek

This is my last comment on this subject.

Yes, Bridgewater was a Stagg Bowl team awhile back. Mount Union was a Stagg Bowl team 16 times. Don't think they are in the same category! I was just trying to make the point that the OAC wasn't always like they are now, from a strength point of view.

Of course no one is good now just because they were good in the past. I'm just a Purple Raider fan and alumnus. I rooted for them then, I root for them now and I will continue to do so.

[Pat Coleman]

jknezek

This is my last comment on this subject.

Yes, Bridgewater was a Stagg Bowl team awhile back. Mount Union was a Stagg Bowl team 16 times. Don't think they are in the same category! I was just trying to make the point that the OAC wasn't always like they are now, from a strength point of view.

Here's the rest of what he said, which is also relevant, right?

UMU will be there in the end regardless of whether the rest of the OAC is any good, but UMU's success doesn't mean the OAC is particularly good.

[Dr. Acula]

While I'm not naive enough to expect 3 or 4 teams in the OAC to push Mount hard each year I also don't think it's outrageous to expect a few of them to at least make Mount play their starters into the 4th qtr.  We expect the starters to be out early against Musky, but VK shouldn't be benching the starters at halftime against ONU or Ott or whoever we put in that 2nd tier at the moment.  And yes, I'm already assuming the starters will play sparingly if at all in the 2nd half at Ott Saturday.