FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[SaintsFAN]

I mean do they consider what these players did against the top teams in their conference? If so then Ettas back had 539yds against Wilma (286), BW (167), and Cap (86) on 105 carries (5.13 yds/car) and in those games he had 12TDS. Against Mount, JCU and Berg he had 142 yds on 59 carries (2.4 yds/car) and 2TDS. Plus he is 5th in the conference in rushing and 4th in TDs. To me that says he is an average back with some great stats against the bottom half. The way I see it is that the majority of the OAC talent was on the Mount/JCU/Berg.

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

Mitchell had, what?... 60 yards on 12 or 13 attempts against JCU?  And he doesn't have a game AGAINST Mount Union count against him.  So thats kinda my point... the RB from Mount Union didn't have to play but 1 game against a legit defense.  And he definitely didn't play against Mount's defense in any game (that would be weird, huh?).

[Spurrier]

All the polar bears in pensacola ..Just placed the baby seal on the smoker...happy thanksgiving and good luck to the oac teams this Saturday...

[Desertraider]

I mean do they consider what these players did against the top teams in their conference? If so then Ettas back had 539yds against Wilma (286), BW (167), and Cap (86) on 105 carries (5.13 yds/car) and in those games he had 12TDS. Against Mount, JCU and Berg he had 142 yds on 59 carries (2.4 yds/car) and 2TDS. Plus he is 5th in the conference in rushing and 4th in TDs. To me that says he is an average back with some great stats against the bottom half. The way I see it is that the majority of the OAC talent was on the Mount/JCU/Berg.

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

Mitchell had, what?... 60 yards on 12 or 13 attempts against JCU?  And he doesn't have a game AGAINST Mount Union count against him.  So thats kinda my point... the RB from Mount Union didn't have to play but 1 game against a legit defense.  And he definitely didn't play against Mount's defense in any game (that would be weird, huh?).

I was also playing devil's advocate but I see what you are saying and to a point agree with you. My main issue was that the kid from Etta has 90% of his stats against like 3 or 4 teams. I couldn't see him getting a 1st team vote. Just too much talent above him. Now I am surprised he didn't get a 2nd team vote and would love to know how he is not even worthy of HM. I mean they have 9 RBs listed including 2 from JCU and Otterbein. I personally would put Logan Nemeth ahead of a couple of those guys and the kid from Etta should be there as well.

JCUs Vince Ziccardi was HM with 2rushes/6 yds/1TD and 3rec/9 yards/1TD - am I missing something? Or Tyler Hammond from OTT with 168 yds rushing and 15 yds rec. and no TDs - also HM?

[SaintsFAN]

JCUs Vince Ziccardi was HM with 2rushes/6 yds/1TD and 3rec/9 yards/1TD - am I missing something? Or Tyler Hammond from OTT with 168 yds rushing and 15 yds rec. and no TDs - also HM?

You're right. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

JCUs Vince Ziccardi was HM with 2rushes/6 yds/1TD and 3rec/9 yards/1TD - am I missing something? Or Tyler Hammond from OTT with 168 yds rushing and 15 yds rec. and no TDs - also HM?

You're right.

Re: Ziccardi,

I have no first-hand knowledge (have not watched JCU at all) but he is listed on the roster as a fullback and described in his bio as a "blocking back" - so I'm okay with a guy like that getting a nod if he actually plays a decent majority of the team's snaps (it's getting harder and harder to recognize a "fullback" role in all-star teams because nobody really uses that position quite the same way any more).  If he comes in for six short-yardage plays a game, it's a little silly, but if he's on the field as a blocking back for 30+ snaps a game, I can live with that.  According to the roster he has "started" six games and played in all 11, but since that "start" only means that he's on the field for the first snap, it's hard to infer how much he plays in the game without someone who's watched a few games.

Hammond is a little harder to buy.  Is he listed as a KR or a RB?  KR might make sense - he did have 760 KR yards on the season and averaged 25+ yards per return - but RB would be pretty hard to get.

[Desertraider]

JCUs Vince Ziccardi was HM with 2rushes/6 yds/1TD and 3rec/9 yards/1TD - am I missing something? Or Tyler Hammond from OTT with 168 yds rushing and 15 yds rec. and no TDs - also HM?

You're right.

Re: Ziccardi,

I have no first-hand knowledge (have not watched JCU at all) but he is listed on the roster as a fullback and described in his bio as a "blocking back" - so I'm okay with a guy like that getting a nod if he actually plays a decent majority of the team's snaps (it's getting harder and harder to recognize a "fullback" role in all-star teams because nobody really uses that position quite the same way any more).  If he comes in for six short-yardage plays a game, it's a little silly, but if he's on the field as a blocking back for 30+ snaps a game, I can live with that.  According to the roster he has "started" six games and played in all 11, but since that "start" only means that he's on the field for the first snap, it's hard to infer how much he plays in the game without someone who's watched a few games.

Hammond is a little harder to buy.  Is he listed as a KR or a RB?  KR might make sense - he did have 760 KR yards on the season and averaged 25+ yards per return - but RB would be pretty hard to get.

If you leave a 1000yd rusher (60 yards shy) off the HM and have a blocking back listed - he better be one hell of a blocker. On Hammond he is listed as: Tyler Hammond, Otterbein RB Sr. Pickerington/ Pickerington Central

Here is the complete list: http://static.psbin.com/k/l/5y51ip1upxmeus/Football_2014_Spec.pdf

This is Ziccardi's season composite:
Games played: 11
Avg per rush: 3.0
Avg per catch: 3.0
Kick ret avg: 17.0
All purpose avg/game: 2.9
Total offense avg/gm: 0.5

Not sure I could find how many snaps he was in for - but again - he must be an AMAZING blocker to put on HM in place of a back with 960yds and 15TDs.

[ExTartanPlayer]

2 replies:

1) I have no idea how the honorable mention section is compiled - whether it's just any kid who got at least one vote, or any kid nominated by his coach, etc - but it's possible that there wasn't some collective decision to put the JCU fullback on "over" the Marietta (or any) RB.  It could be that just one coach filling out his ballot named the JCU fullback, or even that the JCU staff themselves named him (again: I am not sure how the OAC compiles this list, but I know it's common for high-school all-star teams to have the coaches nominate their own honorable mention players after voting for the 1st and 2nd team - yes, it can look kind of funny because some coaches will nominate virtually every starter from their team).  I don't think there was a "head to head" comparison of the two players - my guess is that one or two coaches named the JCU fullback, perhaps old-school types that still fill out their all-star ballots with a RB and a blocking back (see below) instead of naming all "running backs" as though they do the same thing.

2) Referencing stats for FB's vs. RB's,

Go back and look at 1980's and 1990's Pro Bowl teams.  Almost every year a "fullback" got named to each conference's team that had significantly inferior stats to many of the league's "running" backs who carried the ball more - Daryl Johnston being one good example, and Mike Alstott, Larry Centers, and Kimble Anders being others that came later (although all of them contributed significantly to their respective offenses, their statistics were still indisputably far inferior to even a "league average" starting halfback).  That's what I'm trying to reference - that there was a time when "fullback" was a position that was evaluated entirely separately from a "running back" and thus, comparing their statistics is missing the point.

I don't think there was some conspiracy to put this kid on the team "over" a running back with more yards and touchdowns.  My guess is that whomever voted for the JCU fullback was evaluating the two as though they played two different positions, still differentiating between RB and FB in a way that most people do not bother with any more.  He's listed as "RB" on the all-star team, but "FB" on the team's website, so obviously the coaches view him as playing a different position than their other RB's.

[Dr. Acula]

Saw this in the paper and thought I should share it.  Sadly, former Cap football player Joey Riley was killed in action in Afghanistan.  Thoughts and prayers for his family, friends and former Crusader teammates. 

Dispatch Article

[formerd3db]

Like ETP, I would like to share some general comments as well.  I always enjoy reading these annual discussions/debates on the boards each year regarding the selections to the all-league teams from the various conferences.  There are always legitimate concerns as to agreement or disagreement of those chosen to some of the positions.  Of course, it is also true that someone (player) gets the "short end of the stick" when they, in reality, should have been accorded otherwise. 

I am sure that we all hope that coaches do not engage in some type of conspiracy to allow that to happen, although, unfortunately, I know it has happened occasionally.  How does one account for, say for example, a DB one year being selected 1st team who has zero interceptions in the league and is way down on the list in tackles as opposed to another from a different team who lead the league in categories (and not stats just against one team or at the end of the game i.e. rather they actually had obtained those stats via a variety of league opponents and during the main competitive portions of the game(s)) and/or a lineman who did not have a particularly great year being selected 1st team but was a two-time previous 1st team selection previously?  Part of the answer is that their team(s) won the league championship and "to the victor goes the spoils" as that old saying goes-coaches do make some deals on occasion.  There will always be the situation where some player who is really deserving gets overlooked or placed on the second team or HM when they should have been selected to a higher position-that's just the reality of life.

Also, at least in our league, the head coaches nominate players, including their own team players, however, they are not allowed to vote for their own players.  No doubt that sometimes the HM selections occur such as ETP has theorized. 

Anyway, always interesting discussions on this topic at this time each year.   

[SaintsFAN]

Saw this in the paper and thought I should share it.  Sadly, former Cap football player Joey Riley was killed in action in Afghanistan.  Thoughts and prayers for his family, friends and former Crusader teammates. 

Dispatch Article

SAD -- thank you for your service, Soldier. 

[formerd3db]

Saw this in the paper and thought I should share it.  Sadly, former Cap football player Joey Riley was killed in action in Afghanistan.  Thoughts and prayers for his family, friends and former Crusader teammates. 

Dispatch Article

This is always sad news.  Although I obviously did not know Joey Riley or who he was, indeed, my thoughts and prayers go out to his family, friends, and his former Crusader family.  It also puts such discussions as the all-league suggestions in perspective-the latter doesn't really matter in the overall importance of things. 

[Desertraider]

Saw this in the paper and thought I should share it.  Sadly, former Cap football player Joey Riley was killed in action in Afghanistan.  Thoughts and prayers for his family, friends and former Crusader teammates. 

Dispatch Article

SAD -- thank you for your service, Soldier.

All gave some - some gave all. Prayers are with you brother.

[HScoach]

Saw this in the paper and thought I should share it.  Sadly, former Cap football player Joey Riley was killed in action in Afghanistan.  Thoughts and prayers for his family, friends and former Crusader teammates. 

Dispatch Article

SAD -- thank you for your service, Soldier.

All gave some - some gave all. Prayers are with you brother.

I'll second that.  RIP soldier.   

[formerd3db]

To all OAC posters/colleagues and Pat and staff as well:

I wish all of you a safe and blessed Thanksgiving holiday.  Enjoy!

[Raider 68]

To all the OAC posters, have a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving!