FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[Bombers798891]

The whole running up the score thing is such a tricky subject, especially at the high school and college level. Yes, it's the responsibility of the other team to stop you. Yes, the winning coach has to prepare his players—including his backups—for tougher games. Yes, sometimes, it's probably *more* sportsmanlike to score than to take a knee. Yes, sometimes, there's almost literally nothing you can do.

I'd like to think we can tell the difference between some team/player that's just trying to be antagonistic, and something that just can't be helped. If Grinnell hoops schedules some OOC game against a random 50-person bible college, and  one guy almost never leaves the court and does nothing but shoot, well, it doesn't take a genius to know what they're up to.

If Mount Union's in the national semifinals and playing one of the five best teams in the country, and simply better than them, well, we should be able to accept that.

That said, to me, it's as much about how everyone carries themselves in the process than the final score or even the play calls. Are you teeing off on unsuspecting on an INT/Punt return 30 yards behind the play just because? Are you running your mouth? Are your players celebrating in some guy's face when they get some stat-padding play/score? Generally speaking: Are you being an ***hole? I've never gotten the sense that Mount's guys do that, but I haven't seen much of them in person

[HScoach]

I can tell you as a coach, I think it's far more embarrassing for a team to take four straight knees.  I'd rather they kick the field goal on 4th down if that presents itself.  Having a team take a knee in order to turn it over on downs is far worse to deal with on the other sidelines.

As a former HS coach myself, I agree 100%.   Nothing more demeaning than taking 4 knees to keep from scoring.   

[ExTartanPlayer]

That said, to me, it's as much about how everyone carries themselves in the process than the final score or even the play calls. Are you teeing off on unsuspecting on an INT/Punt return 30 yards behind the play just because? Are you running your mouth? Are your players celebrating in some guy's face when they get some stat-padding play/score? Generally speaking: Are you being an ***hole? I've never gotten the sense that Mount's guys do that, but I haven't seen much of them in person

Bingo.  The number on the scoreboard does define sportsmanship but, well, I guess the sportsmanship displayed does.

In various situations:

I've got no problem with a team that has a big lead letting the second-stringers run the normal offense for a series or two.  Even if that means throwing some passes with a 56-point lead or running some no-huddle for a little while (as long as it's not 30-seconds-left, hurry-up-and-score-one-last-TD stuff).  Game reps are valuable for the backups. 

Kicking FG's with a huge lead, I gotta say, I don't think that's a dick move at all.  Even if it's 68-17.  Heck, even if it's 82-0.  As noted here, I think taking a knee for four downs (even if well-intentioned) makes the opposition feel even worse - hey kids, you're so bad that we won't even pretend to play regular football for the rest of the game.  We'll just take a knee.  At that point, why are the kids even still on the field?  It would be like a baseball team with a 14-0 lead in the seventh telling their kids not to swing at a pitch for the rest of the game, but just stand there until the opposing pitcher can strike them out.  Why bother finishing the game, then?  Just forfeit or call the game at that point.

I've got no problem with getting the starters some prolonged work in the national semis to prepare for the national finals.  Especially in the national semis against a team with a big pedigree that nearly pulled off the greatest comeback, like, ever last year on the same field this game was being played on.  I thought you, Bombers, made a great point a few years ago when Widener beat Wilkes 90-0 and everyone on the East boards lost their **** about Widener being dickish (that was stupid, too, Widener's last couple of TD's were defensive and special-teams scores by backups).  Anyways, you reminded us that Wilkes was normally pretty good, this wasn't some helpless program that was going to drop the football team because of one bad loss.  I don't think Wesley is going to look back at this game and get all pissy about the touchdown that made it 70-0 in the 3rd; they might pissed at themselves for not being competitive, not at Mount for scoring too many touchdowns.

[short]

2013 1st team All-OAC RB BJ Mitchell scored the 83rd point vs Marietta in the 2013 game.  Mount Union never took a knee or kick on early downs in that game. Mount also passed the more times vs Marietta than they did in the other 14 games in 2013.  This was a head scratch for me, did they run up the score? They did play the 2nd team QB (Scott) and 4 RB's, but never took a knee vs the Pioneers.

[pradierguy]

2013 1st team All-OAC RB BJ Mitchell scored the 83rd point vs Marietta in the 2013 game.  Mount Union never took a knee or kick on early downs in that game. Mount also passed the more times vs Marietta than they did in the other 14 games in 2013.  This was a head scratch for me, did they run up the score? They did play the 2nd team QB (Scott) and 4 RB's, but never took a knee vs the Pioneers.

I'd much rather BJ Mitchell get his reps and be fully prepared for the playoffs and UWW while "running it up" a little bit, rather than get their heads kicked in during the Stagg Bowl. UWW was BY FAR the superior team last year, but I'm convinced the lack of competition and barely playing into the 3rd quarter 9 out of 10 games hurt Mount considerably.

Not trying to be arrogant here, but it's not BJ Mitchell's fault his TD was the 83rd point of the game. If people don't want feelings hurt, Mount could just scrimmage themselves 9 weeks a year and get some valuable reps.  As I fan, I want my team as prepared as possible for playoffs and hopefully Stagg Bowl. Whatever it takes for that to happen is fair game.

[ExTartanPlayer]

That's a dumb example.  Marietta was the third game of the season; at the time B.J. Mitchell was just a freshman third-string running back, not the first-team All-OAC running back he would be by the end of the season.  Germany Woods and Mason Minnich had gotten all of the first-team reps in the first two games.  Mitchell had zero carries in the Franklin game and four carries against Muskingum.  In hindsight, it looks like the "lead dog" scoring the last touchdown, but at the time he was the backup just looking to make his mark.

[WarhawkDad]

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/2122944/highlights/206727383#

Check out this kid's highlight tape for a good laugh.  He could probably have an immediate impact at Wilmington.

Outstanding..I found myself trying to spot him before the spot shadow. I like his sense of humor.

Now that is very funny!

[wesleydad]

I can not believe this conversation is still going on.  Mount did not run up the score.  I was glad they called off the dogs and only got to 70.  Could have been 100 as bad as Wesley played on defense.

[mr_mom]

When is Mount finally moving up to D2?!?!

<G> Thank you, Warhawk.     My apologies to all for last night's rant.

[Craft_Beermeister]

RedditCFB ‏@RedditCFB 48s49 seconds ago
This weekend Japan had its College FB nat'l title; Kwansei Gakuin won its 26th in 69 years

Mount Union of the East.....

Whitewater the Mount Union of the West.

[Craft_Beermeister]

Lots of talk and criticism on the WIAC board about Mount running up the score and being classless. 
Never have heard Mount being called classless by anyone that knows anything about the program.  Field goals on first and goal in the third and fourth quarters over the years and no passing in the fourth quarter of most blowouts.

Mount's offense this year is up tempo, not huddle and go go go..that leads to more plays, more scoring and short scoring drives, (check the stats)..
56-0 at half and starters played vanilla football in the third period.  Mount to my memory has never sat the starters at the half, they usually play a couple series in the third and this is what they did.

Second team DBs LBs were in most of second half, and Wesley took advantage of them for statistical gains which meant nothing except for some records which were set by the Wolverine individuals..notably QB and WR...

We took our beatdown by the Warchicks last year with humility, however, this is one Raider that would like to send Lance out with his worst loss ever... I think we can..

I saw Mt. kick a field goal in 06 against Otterbein with the score 68-17 and two minutes left in the game. That sure looked like running up the score to me.

As I recall, that field goal was kicked on 1st and goal from the 2.  So in order to not run the score up, Mount should have run the ball in for a TD??

Could have taken 4 knees, used up the entire game clock each play and not score anything. I don't have a problem with scoring a ton of points or "running up the score" but I get a chuckle out of people who think that there's no option except to score or kick a field goal on first down. That's what taking a kneee is for! lol

Why take a knee four times and embarasse your opponent.  Maybe it would be better to just hand the football to your opponent.  This getting silly.  Don't we have a big game this Friday?

[Craft_Beermeister]

Lots of talk and criticism on the WIAC board about Mount running up the score and being classless. 
Never have heard Mount being called classless by anyone that knows anything about the program.  Field goals on first and goal in the third and fourth quarters over the years and no passing in the fourth quarter of most blowouts.

Mount's offense this year is up tempo, not huddle and go go go..that leads to more plays, more scoring and short scoring drives, (check the stats)..
56-0 at half and starters played vanilla football in the third period.  Mount to my memory has never sat the starters at the half, they usually play a couple series in the third and this is what they did.

Second team DBs LBs were in most of second half, and Wesley took advantage of them for statistical gains which meant nothing except for some records which were set by the Wolverine individuals..notably QB and WR...

We took our beatdown by the Warchicks last year with humility, however, this is one Raider that would like to send Lance out with his worst loss ever... I think we can..

I saw Mt. kick a field goal in 06 against Otterbein with the score 68-17 and two minutes left in the game. That sure looked like running up the score to me.

As I recall, that field goal was kicked on 1st and goal from the 2.  So in order to not run the score up, Mount should have run the ball in for a TD??

It was not first down at the two. it was a fourth down play farther out on the field.

You are correct in that it was a 38 yard field goal (I just looked up the box score), but this does not help your case that Mount was running up the score.  As a matter of fact, it does the opposite.  If Mount was trying to run up the score, they would've converted on that fourth down and marched on to another touchdown.  Instead, they did the right thing and kicked a field goal.  I fail to see how kicking a field goal from 38 yards away on fourth down is running up the score.  Again, could they just take a knee??  Yes, but to completely stop playing football altogether is contrary to what you preach to players from the beginning of the very first work out and also a slap in the face to the other team.

Damn I thought Mr_Mom stopped this crazy discussion.  Mount went to the bottom of their bench, player they have a lot of praise for, but because of the situation only permitted them to play a vanilla scheme no blitzing on passing.  Wesley knew they were a better team than they were showing so they kept their starters in against the backup Mount was playing.  Mount intercepted the ball on Wesley's 20 and keeping it vanilla they ran the ball for 3 plays and took a delay of game to permit them to take a 38 yard field goal.  Maybe you can call Mount selfish for using the moment to practice a field goal against a good D3 team, but please stop the running up the score BS.

[Craft_Beermeister]

I can tell you as a coach, I think it's far more embarrassing for a team to take four straight knees.  I'd rather they kick the field goal on 4th down if that presents itself.  Having a team take a knee in order to turn it over on downs is far worse to deal with on the other sidelines.

Amen

[Dr. Acula]

How is this run up the score debate still going on?  No Wesley fan has ever brought it up.  Heck, Wesleydad has all but told us to drop it.  And the person who originally broached the subject indirectly (BoBo) did so in the very valid context of the risk vs reward aspect of possibly suffering an injury to Burke in a decided game.  Given Burke's worth to the team this is more than appropriate to discuss, IMO. 

Let's talk about, oh I don't know, the national championship game in 4 days!  Can Mount protect Burke?  How healthy is Kumerow?  Will Mount's depth on defense this year be enough to slow down the UWW running game?  Is LL currently watching film of Bowling Green??  These are the things I wonder.

[emma17]

How is this run up the score debate still going on?  No Wesley fan has ever brought it up.  Heck, Wesleydad has all but told us to drop it.  And the person who originally broached the subject indirectly (BoBo) did so in the very valid context of the risk vs reward aspect of possibly suffering an injury to Burke in a decided game.  Given Burke's worth to the team this is more than appropriate to discuss, IMO. 

Let's talk about, oh I don't know, the national championship game in 4 days!  Can Mount protect Burke?  How healthy is Kumerow?  Will Mount's depth on defense this year be enough to slow down the UWW running game?  Is LL currently watching film of Bowling Green??  These are the things I wonder.

It did seem like there was a one team debate going on with this "running up the score" thing.  I did stumble across people that were actually talking about the subject of Mt's starters in the game though- the ESPN announcers.  In fact, they talked quite a bit about it, starting late in the second quarter and throughout the entire third quarter.  Now they didn't refer or infer "running up the score" but they sure wondered aloud, often, when the Mt starters would leave the game.  For the record, I don't care. 

Good questions in the second paragraph.  One thing for sure is we can't use the Wesley game as a how to guide for anything.  That game was truly a combination of outstanding play by Mt comingled with some of the most wretched football I've ever witnessed. It belonged in a caldron more than it did a football field.