FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[jamtod]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

How did the Mount Union crowd compare?

[AO]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

Notre Dame has a larger enrollment.  11,300 compared to 10,200 total and 8,300 undergrads compared to 6,200 for the Tommies.  If St. Thomas really brought 2,500 to Salem that would be pretty impressive.  Salem isn't the easiest place in the world to get to from St. Paul.  Fan support is growing at St. Thomas, but an elite football program is still a relatively recent addition to their campus.  Only about 2,400 students live on campus and with a campus location in the middle of a major city, the attendance at campus events isn't what it is at schools in smaller towns. 

[pg04]

Plus,of course, I must add, D1 schools get fans that don't even go to their schools. Ones that never have and never will. It just can't be a comparison.

[Desertraider]

I have been reading a lot of comments at the bottoms of articles on Mount v. UST and am amazed at the lack of knowledge by supposed football fans. I get that its D3 but I never grow tired of hearing it is '5th year high school football', or that 'Mount, UST, etc., get a bunch of D1 transfers' or that 'Mount has to be doing something to keep it going this long'. Implying that it is more than good coaching, or preparation, or 'buying in' by the players. It is a bit irritating. One of the things that I love about D3 football is that we (as fans) tend to know a bit more about the players than just the stats. We know more about the stories. In my case, and a few others, I have had more than a few in classes and I see how hard they work everyday. Tom Lally, and others - but his name comes to mind, would come to class (it was at 7:30AM) after having either lifted at 6AM or conditioned, or sometimes both. But they NEVER missed class and were never unprepared. These were not coached events, Tom said that he and the D-line lifted and conditioned as a group in addition to practice (this was when he was a sophomore). I have seen guys like Namdar, Kennedy, and Jones in the MAAC on several occasions at 7PM and later on the ellipticals  with their text books or notes propped on the board in front of them reading/studying while running - this is after practice on their own time. Don't get me wrong - this is a regular occurrence at Mount with everyday students as well. But the athletes, in this case football players, don't go through the motions - they prepare for practice by working out on their own, lifting on their own, and conditioning - then they practice to prepare for the games. Guys like Mason Minnich and Elliot Nero impress the hell out of me because they work JUST AS HARD as the guys getting regular playing time. Mason was one of the backs in the rotation with the 2nd/3rd unit with Logan Nemeth when they were freshman and sophs. He got a few carries with the 2nds this year but he was on special teams. He didn't slack off - I saw him working just as hard and it paid off. I am willing to bet he either got or was in on 80% of special teams tackles this year. So the answer as to why Mount is so good year in and year out is this: the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and practice squad guys work just as hard as the starters and the starters never stop working. It isn't a magic pill, it isn't transfers, it isn't necessarily better players - its players that are not afraid to work their tails off to get better. My .02 cents.

[Pat Coleman]

It's a 20-hour drive and flying to Salem on five days' notice is not particularly easy.

[Raider 68]

I have been reading a lot of comments at the bottoms of articles on Mount v. UST and am amazed at the lack of knowledge by supposed football fans. I get that its D3 but I never grow tired of hearing it is '5th year high school football', or that 'Mount, UST, etc., get a bunch of D1 transfers' or that 'Mount has to be doing something to keep it going this long'. Implying that it is more than good coaching, or preparation, or 'buying in' by the players. It is a bit irritating. One of the things that I love about D3 football is that we (as fans) tend to know a bit more about the players than just the stats. We know more about the stories. In my case, and a few others, I have had more than a few in classes and I see how hard they work everyday. Tom Lally, and others - but his name comes to mind, would come to class (it was at 7:30AM) after having either lifted at 6AM or conditioned, or sometimes both. But they NEVER missed class and were never unprepared. These were not coached events, Tom said that he and the D-line lifted and conditioned as a group in addition to practice (this was when he was a sophomore). I have seen guys like Namdar, Kennedy, and Jones in the MAAC on several occasions at 7PM and later on the ellipticals  with their text books or notes propped on the board in front of them reading/studying while running - this is after practice on their own time. Don't get me wrong - this is a regular occurrence at Mount with everyday students as well. But the athletes, in this case football players, don't go through the motions - they prepare for practice by working out on their own, lifting on their own, and conditioning - then they practice to prepare for the games. Guys like Mason Minnich and Elliot Nero impress the hell out of me because they work JUST AS HARD as the guys getting regular playing time. Mason was one of the backs in the rotation with the 2nd/3rd unit with Logan Nemeth when they were freshman and sophs. He got a few carries with the 2nds this year but he was on special teams. He didn't slack off - I saw him working just as hard and it paid off. I am willing to bet he either got or was in on 80% of special teams tackles this year. So the answer as to why Mount is so good year in and year out is this: the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and practice squad guys work just as hard as the starters and the starters never stop working. It isn't a magic pill, it isn't transfers, it isn't necessarily better players - its players that are not afraid to work their tails off to get better. My .02 cents.

Well said,  +K

[ExTartanPlayer]

Plus,of course, I must add, D1 schools get fans that don't even go to their schools. Ones that never have and never will. It just can't be a comparison.

+K

Toph, I know that you couched what you said with "I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30K" -  but, like pg04 said here, D1 schools have tons of fans who are fans just by proximity, and tons of fans they pick up just from watching on TV or having a famous guy like Johnny Football.  The number of people Notre Dame sends to a bowl game is a data point that's entirely irrelevant in evaluating attendance for a Division III school at a postseason game.

Maybe UST's crowd was a little on the small side of what you were expecting, but I'm not sure I'd be deciding that based on what a D1 school - especially one of the most famous and tradition-laden D1 schools in the country, a school that for years enjoyed its own national-TV contract, a school that was able to demand that some smaller schools play their "home" games against Notre Dame in a larger stadium to accommodate the number of Notre Dame fans that would attend, a school that literally has a movie made about a kid who walked on there because it was the biggest draw, the school that everyone in their family rooted for even though none had gone there...well, you get the point.  Notre Dame is an outlier.

[jknezek]

Even if it wasn't a history laden school, the bigger D1 bowls all have weeks of run up to sell tickets and have people make plans. The very early bowl games, unless they are very close to home, are generally sparsely attended. I went to what is now the Birmingham Bowl a few years ago when it was SMU vs. Pitt. Legion Field with 2500 people in it is a bad place to see a game, and that was with weeks to sell the tickets. This year, with Auburn and Memphis playing, I expect the game will be close to a sellout.

Regardless, it's just too darned hard to get people to travel on 1 week's notice. There are many die hard Alabama fans here in my office. Relatively wealthy folks who rarely miss a significant home or away game. They are having trouble deciding whether to go to the Cotton Bowl or hold out to go to an (assumed) national championship game in Phoenix. With only 1 week lead time, most find it much too expensive to garner flights to do both, regardless of their income status and history.

I think it's simply unrealistic to have expected St. Thomas to bring too many fans to the game. If they really brought 2500, I think they did well.

[Craft_Beermeister]

Maybe Craft's magic 8-ball is predicting a successful 2016 too?

The MOUNT UNION 2016 NATIONAL CHAMPS!!! THE MACHINE!!! Can't wait to be there in 3 weeks!! was a direct copy from Luke Poorman's twitter page.  It looks like Luke tweeted it just after Mount Union's impressive win Friday night.

It was interesting that Luke had several tweets about Mount Union going back to I think June.  Poorman also thanked Larry for flying down to watch him play.  There is a lot of neat stuff related to the Purple Raiders I saw on Poorman's twitter page, but after I asked to follow him on Twitter he blocked me.  LOL I can't recall another time that I've been blocked on Twitter.  Maybe D3Board karma has carried over to Twitter or maybe the young man doesn't liked to be followed by old men.

Luke Poorman, graduate University H.S. Orlando, Florida. He is unrolled at Mount starting January 2016;

- 6'0 190 lbs, probably will add another 10+ lbs

- Great arm, accurate and mobile

- Set all kinds of records at University school

- Graduated early

Although it is unlikely to be the starter against Bethany next fall, he could be later in the season. Maybe he will be an answer
to the QB question for 2016.

Here is some video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG_2PEV1pVg

From what I saw from the kid's twitter account before he blocked me for following him Luke had hundreds of positive tweets about Mount Union starting in June.  One never knows, but I think the kid has a great chance to be special.

[Craft_Beermeister]

A few days late, but this is my first chance to post about the game.

First things first, good God, was it cold.  That was the first time I ever tailgated inside a car.  The ambient temperature wasn't bad, but that wind was awful. 

I was very impressed with Mount Union in my first opportunity to see them live this season.  They're fast all over the field.  UST's running backs were good, but did anyone else notice (and I'm sorry if this has already been discussed) that they ran toward their sideline probably 95% of the time?  I think that's one reason the ground game slowed a little, you knew where the ball was going before it was snapped.  They also got a little pass happy which didn't make sense to me, being a big running team, with 25 mile an hour wind...

Finally, our buddy Glenn...I've never seen a coach who was 10 yards beyond the box, nearly at the hash marks complaining to officials so much without drawing a flag.  I loved watching Mount score just to see Campbell's reaction on the sideline.  But I was happy to see that he decided to go out with some class this time and not try to disrupt the victory formation.

I'll end by saying that after the Raiders tied it up 14-14 the game was never really in doubt.  Take away a fluke score on the fumble recovery, take away the weird fake punt call that made absolutely no sense, this game wasn't as close as the score indicated.  Mount Union was clearly the better team Friday night.

Enjoy it, Raider fans, and we'll see what happens next year.

Toph that was a great analysis.  You had a lot of good points.

[USTBench]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

Let's clear some things up here. The amount of graduate students, give or take 5,000, adds significantly to our "enrollment." Additionally, a lot of these folks are just getting their MBA at night through their work, or, in a TON of situations, getting a masters in education online. They have no real affiliation with UST, only set foot on their Minneapolis graduate campus, if at all, and have probably never been to the St. Paul campus.

Second, are you REALLY comparing Notre Dame and UST's situation?

Third, Notre Dame alums, students, etc, have nearly a month between their last regular season game and a bowl game to make arrangements to get to the Fiesta Bowl, which is in Glendale/Phoenix, an airport hub with multiple direct flights a day from Chicago, where the biggest piece of the Notre Dame alum pie probably resides.

Fourth, UST played in (Salem) Roanoke, Virginia which is in the middle of flipping nowhere in western Virginia on 5 days notice. You can either pay an arm and a leg and fly to Roanoke, or fly to DC or Baltimore and rent a car, or drive 20 hours. Not exactly convenient.

Fifth, it was finals week.

Sixth, 2500 UST fans, that's pretty good considering the circumstances.

Seventh, you should go to the box and feel shame. Comparing the circumstances Notre Dame and UST. SMDH. By that logic we should have 100,000 people for home games. We're not even close to the biggest school (enrollment wise) in DIII.

[Desertraider]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

Let's clear some things up here. The amount of graduate students, give or take 5,000, adds significantly to our "enrollment." Additionally, a lot of these folks are just getting their MBA at night through their work, or, in a TON of situations, getting a masters in education online. They have no real affiliation with UST, only set foot on their Minneapolis graduate campus, if at all, and have probably never been to the St. Paul campus.

Second, are you REALLY comparing Notre Dame and UST's situation?

Third, Notre Dame alums, students, etc, have nearly a month between their last regular season game and a bowl game to make arrangements to get to the Fiesta Bowl, which is in Glendale/Phoenix, an airport hub with multiple direct flights a day from Chicago, where the biggest piece of the Notre Dame alum pie probably resides.

Fourth, UST played in (Salem) Roanoke, Virginia which is in the middle of flipping nowhere in western Virginia on 5 days notice. You can either pay an arm and a leg and fly to Roanoke, or fly to DC or Baltimore and rent a car, or drive 20 hours. Not exactly convenient.

Fifth, it was finals week.

Sixth, 2500 UST fans, that's pretty good considering the circumstances.

Seventh, you should go to the box and feel shame. Comparing the circumstances Notre Dame and UST. SMDH. By that logic we should have 100,000 people for home games. We're not even close to the biggest school (enrollment wise) in DIII.

Good points. Just want to point out the part where 'Salem, VA is in the middle of flipping nowhere' - um so is the entire flipping State of Minnesota!  I thought the Tommies had a good turn out for the game in all honesty.

[USTBench]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

Let's clear some things up here. The amount of graduate students, give or take 5,000, adds significantly to our "enrollment." Additionally, a lot of these folks are just getting their MBA at night through their work, or, in a TON of situations, getting a masters in education online. They have no real affiliation with UST, only set foot on their Minneapolis graduate campus, if at all, and have probably never been to the St. Paul campus.

Second, are you REALLY comparing Notre Dame and UST's situation?

Third, Notre Dame alums, students, etc, have nearly a month between their last regular season game and a bowl game to make arrangements to get to the Fiesta Bowl, which is in Glendale/Phoenix, an airport hub with multiple direct flights a day from Chicago, where the biggest piece of the Notre Dame alum pie probably resides.

Fourth, UST played in (Salem) Roanoke, Virginia which is in the middle of flipping nowhere in western Virginia on 5 days notice. You can either pay an arm and a leg and fly to Roanoke, or fly to DC or Baltimore and rent a car, or drive 20 hours. Not exactly convenient.

Fifth, it was finals week.

Sixth, 2500 UST fans, that's pretty good considering the circumstances.

Seventh, you should go to the box and feel shame. Comparing the circumstances Notre Dame and UST. SMDH. By that logic we should have 100,000 people for home games. We're not even close to the biggest school (enrollment wise) in DIII.

Good points. Just want to point out the part where 'Salem, VA is in the middle of flipping nowhere' - um so is the entire flipping State of Minnesota!  I thought the Tommies had a good turn out for the game in all honesty.

Touche 

Hey man, I live in Fargo, ND, I know "nowhere" when I see it. The Twin Cities are not nowhere.

[Pat Coleman]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

Let's clear some things up here. The amount of graduate students, give or take 5,000, adds significantly to our "enrollment." Additionally, a lot of these folks are just getting their MBA at night through their work, or, in a TON of situations, getting a masters in education online. They have no real affiliation with UST, only set foot on their Minneapolis graduate campus, if at all, and have probably never been to the St. Paul campus.

Second, are you REALLY comparing Notre Dame and UST's situation?

Third, Notre Dame alums, students, etc, have nearly a month between their last regular season game and a bowl game to make arrangements to get to the Fiesta Bowl, which is in Glendale/Phoenix, an airport hub with multiple direct flights a day from Chicago, where the biggest piece of the Notre Dame alum pie probably resides.

Fourth, UST played in (Salem) Roanoke, Virginia which is in the middle of flipping nowhere in western Virginia on 5 days notice. You can either pay an arm and a leg and fly to Roanoke, or fly to DC or Baltimore and rent a car, or drive 20 hours. Not exactly convenient.

Fifth, it was finals week.

Sixth, 2500 UST fans, that's pretty good considering the circumstances.

Seventh, you should go to the box and feel shame. Comparing the circumstances Notre Dame and UST. SMDH. By that logic we should have 100,000 people for home games. We're not even close to the biggest school (enrollment wise) in DIII.

Good points. Just want to point out the part where 'Salem, VA is in the middle of flipping nowhere' - um so is the entire flipping State of Minnesota!  I thought the Tommies had a good turn out for the game in all honesty.

Touche 

Hey man, I live in Fargo, ND, I know "nowhere" when I see it. The Twin Cities are not nowhere.

Served by a major hub airport. How's Alliance?

[Toph]

Oh, and one other thing I found myself wondering at the game:

How is it that Notre Dame can sell 30,000+ tickets to a bowl game, but a school with a larger enrollment can't get 3,000 to show up for their national championship?

I'm not suggesting St. Thomas should be able to get 30k, but think about that for a second.  They graduate over 10,000 people every four years and only had about 2,500 (my estimate) at the national championship game.

How did the Mount Union crowd compare?

Much bigger, but it's a shorter drive and there are plenty of Mount fans who book their trips well in advance of the national championship because they assume that the team will make it there.  I can't give a great estimate because that was the side I was sitting on.

As for the Notre Dame/UST comparison, I'm only looking at raw data and comparing.  Never said it was apples to apples (in fact, I made a point to say it wasn't apples to apples), and I accomplished my goal of stirring you guys up.