FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[jknezek]

"Criteria for coach nominees:
While each nominee's football achievements are of prime consideration, his post-football record as a citizen is also weighed. He must have proven himself worthy as a citizen, carrying the ideals of football forward into his relations with his community and his fellow man with love of his country.
A coach becomes eligible three years after retirement or immediately following retirement provided he is at least 70 years of age. Active coaches become eligible at 75 years of age.
The nominee must have held a head coaching position at the collegiate level for at least ten years.
The nominee must hold at least a .600 career record over the course of 100 games or more."

From Wikipedia, which isn't always accurate, but is certainly easy...

From College Football HoF:
http://www.cfbhall.com/inductees/inductees-selection-process/

So wiki was right . Well let's see: 3 years after retirement (check). Coach for at least ten years (check). A .600 career record over at least 100 games.....(CHECK+++).
Got no answers on this one.

I wonder if the question becomes has he really retired? I know he's not listed on the coaching staff on the website, but it is oft discussed that he is the QB coach or another role for the offense. I doubt being AD matters, but it may be that he simply isn't considered retired yet. Just a guess.

[Desertraider]

+K. I had not thought about that. Then again - if he is "coaching" QBs wouldn't he be listed, whereas if he is helping out with QBs it would be more unofficial? I guess it depends on how the CFoH defines "active".

[jknezek]

+K. I had not thought about that. Then again - if he is "coaching" QBs wouldn't he be listed, whereas if he is helping out with QBs it would be more unofficial? I guess it depends on how the CFoH defines "active".

Yeah. I have no idea. But it is interesting to think about. Personally I think what he does is indicative of coaching from what I've heard bandied about regarding his time during games and practices and rumors of visiting recruits. That all seems like coaching to me. But none of what I've heard may be accurate either. In the end, I really don't care if he went in a decade ago or if he doesn't go in until he fully retires from UMU. So long as he goes in.

[Desertraider]

+K. I had not thought about that. Then again - if he is "coaching" QBs wouldn't he be listed, whereas if he is helping out with QBs it would be more unofficial? I guess it depends on how the CFoH defines "active".

Yeah. I have no idea. But it is interesting to think about. Personally I think what he does is indicative of coaching from what I've heard bandied about regarding his time during games and practices and rumors of visiting recruits. That all seems like coaching to me. But none of what I've heard may be accurate either. In the end, I really don't care if he went in a decade ago or if he doesn't go in until he fully retires from UMU. So long as he goes in.

Maybe it is being delayed until they complete his own wing

[LadyBear]

Good news and bad news from my ONU. The good news is that this is my last post about my favorite QB Ricardo Johnson III. The bad news is that I just heard that he has transferred away from ONU because he and O-Coordinator Schmitz did not get along. Sad loss, the kid was an honor student and still very popular with his ex-teammates. Apparently the entire team knew about this skism. Btw Freed is currently academically Ineligible. I have no idea how we went from two promising QBs to none. Sad news for a great guy like Coach Paul.

[reality check]

I know that outside of our own little bubble, no one gives D-III much time but I think it's pretty laughable that after Saban wins his 5th title in 21 seasons as a head coach, we have to hear all about how he's possibly the best football coach in college football history.  That's the storyline on local sports radio out here this morning.

Saban's overall coaching record is 191-60 with an 8-8 record in bowl games and five national titles in 21 seasons.

Poor LK is a piddly 332-24 in his 27 seasons with only 11 national titles and a meager 77-12 in playoff games.

I had a guy tell me today, "But Saban is 100-18 at Alabama.  Nobody wins like that at one school."

My response was, "You can subtract 100 wins and 18 losses from LK's record at one school and he still wins 232 games and loses 6.  SIX."

It will always bug me when they talk about "the best this or the best that in college football" when they really mean "the best this or the best that in Division I" because LK has my vote as best coach in college football history and Mount owns the consecutive wins record, not Oklahoma.

[jknezek]

LK's job and Nick Saban's job are very, very different. While the football components overlap, the media spotlight, outside responsibilities, external pressure to win, recruitment battles and more are completely different. If you consider Xs and Os, I think LK stacks up against anyone.

If you consider the ancillary factors and responsibilities of being a DI coach, versus a DIII coach, it is a different animal. I don't mind people claiming a D1 coach is the best in the nation. They are competing at the highest level of collegiate football. LK had his option to try and join that fraternity and compete at that level and for various reasons chose not to.

It is hard to be considered the best if you aren't competing at the highest level.

[Desertraider]

LK's job and Nick Saban's job are very, very different. While the football components overlap, the media spotlight, outside responsibilities, external pressure to win, recruitment battles and more are completely different. If you consider Xs and Os, I think LK stacks up against anyone.

If you consider the ancillary factors and responsibilities of being a DI coach, versus a DIII coach, it is a different animal. I don't mind people claiming a D1 coach is the best in the nation. They are competing at the highest level of collegiate football. LK had his option to try and join that fraternity and compete at that level and for various reasons chose not to.

It is hard to be considered the best if you aren't competing at the highest level.

I get it - I really do. BUT...instead of bringing up the outside stuff and the recruiting battles..how about we think what Saban would do (or how many titles he would win) if he had essentially had to wait until the kids enroll to find out his roster. Yes D3 coaches can recruit kids - but they really can't do anymore than say "hey, you would be a great fit at Mount - here is an application and don't forget your FAFSA". If Saban didn't have the benefits of an unlimited recruiting budget, and the ability to offer the world if they come to Bama - how many titles would he have? I only ask this because we always here the "yea but that's D3" from outsiders. People forget that D1 coaches can go get whatever they need (pass rushers, 6'5 QBs, running QB's, etc..) while D3 coaches have to win with what comes their way. D3 coaches I think are better all around coaches - D1 coaches prefer a system cause they can always reload it with recruits 'built' for them.

And for the record - I would take LK over any coach at any time in the history of college football. Period.

edit: Can you imagine if LK had the ability to recruit the way Saban or Meyer does? If he could have free range to pick and go after ANYONE he wanted? Anyone think that LK would be limited to only 5 titles?

[wally_wabash]

LK's job and Nick Saban's job are very, very different. While the football components overlap, the media spotlight, outside responsibilities, external pressure to win, recruitment battles and more are completely different. If you consider Xs and Os, I think LK stacks up against anyone.

If you consider the ancillary factors and responsibilities of being a DI coach, versus a DIII coach, it is a different animal. I don't mind people claiming a D1 coach is the best in the nation. They are competing at the highest level of collegiate football. LK had his option to try and join that fraternity and compete at that level and for various reasons chose not to.

It is hard to be considered the best if you aren't competing at the highest level.

I get it - I really do. BUT...instead of bringing up the outside stuff and the recruiting battles..how about we think what Saban would do (or how many titles he would win) if he had essentially had to wait until the kids enroll to find out his roster.

I don't think this is a real thing.  You make it sound like D-III is like a high school where you just hope some awesome athlete moves into your district and has to go to your school.  Mount Union recruits their kids.  Hank Spencer didn't just show up there and say "hey guys, how about that football team?  Can I play?"  They knew Hank Spencer was going to Mount Union.  They worked to get Hank Spencer to Mount Union.  Good D-III rosters aren't a coincidence. 

[badgerwarhawk]

I had a guy tell me today, "But Saban is 100-18 at Alabama.  Nobody wins like that at one school."

My response was, "You can subtract 100 wins and 18 losses from LK's record at one school and he still wins 232 games and loses 6.  SIX."

What you could have said was this.

Lance Leipold  UW-WHITEWATER 109-6       

However I do think comparing numbers of coaches in either the OAC or WIAC with those in the SEC isn't exactly and apples to apples sort of thing.  Suffice it to day LK was a great coach.   So is Saban.

[Desertraider]

LK's job and Nick Saban's job are very, very different. While the football components overlap, the media spotlight, outside responsibilities, external pressure to win, recruitment battles and more are completely different. If you consider Xs and Os, I think LK stacks up against anyone.

If you consider the ancillary factors and responsibilities of being a DI coach, versus a DIII coach, it is a different animal. I don't mind people claiming a D1 coach is the best in the nation. They are competing at the highest level of collegiate football. LK had his option to try and join that fraternity and compete at that level and for various reasons chose not to.

It is hard to be considered the best if you aren't competing at the highest level.

I get it - I really do. BUT...instead of bringing up the outside stuff and the recruiting battles..how about we think what Saban would do (or how many titles he would win) if he had essentially had to wait until the kids enroll to find out his roster.

I don't think this is a real thing.  You make it sound like D-III is like a high school where you just hope some awesome athlete moves into your district and has to go to your school.  Mount Union recruits their kids.  Hank Spencer didn't just show up there and say "hey guys, how about that football team?  Can I play?"  They knew Hank Spencer was going to Mount Union.  They worked to get Hank Spencer to Mount Union.  Good D-III rosters aren't a coincidence.

Quit being lazy Wally! Read! "Essentially" being the operative word. I said they can recruit but they can't do it the same way D1 coaches can, and you know this. Yes they recruited Spencer, and Lally, and Scott and so on - but they can't really offer them anything to entice them to campus like D1 coaches can. Never said they are a coincidence - that is just lazy, hack analysis and if anyone else does it you are the first to be an arse about it. Go ahead - start your karma snipes now.

[jknezek]

Quit being lazy Wally! Read! "Essentially" being the operative word. I said they can recruit but they can't do it the same way D1 coaches can, and you know this. Yes they recruited Spencer, and Lally, and Scott and so on - but they can't really offer them anything to entice them to campus like D1 coaches can. Never said they are a coincidence - that is just lazy, hack analysis and if anyone else does it you are the first to be an arse about it. Go ahead - start your karma snipes now.

DI coaches can't offer anything the next DI coach coming to the living room can't offer. There is little comparative advantage. Sure there is a difference between what DI and DIII can offer, but a 4/5 star that Nick Saban is after isn't comparing what Alabama can offer to what UMU can offer, he is looking at Alabama versus LSU.

[wally_wabash]

I don't karma snipe.  I'm an applause only guy these days.  I just think you grossly misrepresented how quality D-III rosters come together in a way that perpetuates the kind of mainstream D-III tropes that we all cringe at.  It isn't fair to give Larry Kehres credit for building an unstoppable dynasty with whatever happens to wash ashore, because that isn't how the game is played, even in D-III.  It IS fair to give him credit for locating, targeting, and landing kids that sustain the excellence. 

[HScoach]

Comparing D1 versus D3 is similar in my mind to comparing the NFL to D1.   Yes, it's all football but the rules of engagement are very different.  So who's better?   Nick Saban or Vince Lombardi?     

I'm as big a Mount homer as anyone, but I understand why D1 gets (and should get) the majority of the love and attention.  What I strongly dislike is that D3 gets absolutely zero attention.   Adding the clarification that Saban is the best coach in D1 is all I want to hear.   It's when they put it in terms all of college that makes me shake my head.

[reality check]

Comparing D1 versus D3 is similar in my mind to comparing the NFL to D1.   Yes, it's all football but the rules of engagement are very different.  So who's better?   Nick Saban or Vince Lombardi?     

I'm as big a Mount homer as anyone, but I understand why D1 gets (and should get) the majority of the love and attention.  What I strongly dislike is that D3 gets absolutely zero attention.  Adding the clarification that Saban is the best coach in D1 is all I want to hear.   It's when they put it in terms all of college that makes me shake my head.

This was essentially my point in posting my initial response.