FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[raiderpa]

The one thing about Arth's new salary....He does have five kids and could probably use the raise.  haha

[edward de vere]

I guess he really is an up-and-comer.

(Speaking of up, what's the over/under on how long this post stays up?)

[emma17]

I guess he really is an up-and-comer.

(Speaking of up, what's the over/under on how long this post stays up?)

Well, you just got yourself on the naughty list.

[Desertraider]

Looks like JCU will have a number of positions to fill:

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20161219/college-football-john-carroll-players-react-to-tom-arths-departure-defensive-coordinator-brandon-staley-also-headed-to-chattanooga

[Dr. Acula]

The new HC at JCU is walking into a great spot.

1) You have top 10 (or better) talent next year.
2) You have a QB for the next 3 years.
3) You have a stud DL for 2 years.
4) They had some good looking young guys rotating in on the D line too.
5) Arth was recruiting well so there's depth too.

The biggest concern to me would be retention.  There are good players there, but you didn't recruit them.  I can't see a lot of attrition though. 

The pressure comes from not wanting to waste 2017.  You need to get in and get your system in place because you can't waste the talent they'll have next year. 

[Desertraider]

The new HC at JCU is walking into a great spot.

1) You have top 10 (or better) talent next year.
2) You have a QB for the next 3 years.
3) You have a stud DL for 2 years.
4) They had some good looking young guys rotating in on the D line too.
5) Arth was recruiting well so there's depth too.

The biggest concern to me would be retention.  There are good players there, but you didn't recruit them.  I can't see a lot of attrition though. 

The pressure comes from not wanting to waste 2017.  You need to get in and get your system in place because you can't waste the talent they'll have next year.

The talent is there, no argument. But the problem with a new coach and staff is "making it their own". Arth had a system that worked and had players he could work his system with. The DC had the same thing with the DL rotation and all that. Losing both of them and others on the staff means a new HC is going to bring in "his guys" who want to implement their system. If it was just a HC and the rest stayed in place that's one thing - this is much bigger. Not saying it won't work but it isn't easy. No new staff is going to want to continue doing what Tom did. The shift to a different philosophy or system could alienate some of the talent, not saying they transfer - but maybe lose the dedication. We have seen it happen at other levels and in other fields. Capitals decline started very quickly after their HC left. They still had talent (we saw it) but they went from 8-3 in 07 (Collins last year) to 5-5 in Bickel's first year, 7-3, 5-5 and downhill from there.

I'm also kinda thinking of Brady's back-up Matt Cassell. He was awesome in the NE/Bellichick system when he replaced Brady (knee injury) for the year and stunk the place up everywhere he went after. Did he stink (probably not) or was the new system a bad fit (more likely). Moeglin thrived under Tom - will that continue under a new system that maybe wants to pass more, or less. The worst thing for JCU (IMHO) would be to take a coach that has no OAC or JCU connection. We have talked about the possibility of VK heading off at some point. If VK left, but the other remained, Mount would probably be Ok. But what if VK left and took Dartt, Kappas and Wojtowicz with him? The talent would be there - but....who knows.

[Desertraider]

Don't know why I didn't put this in the previous post - but it didn't occur to me until I walked away. When LK retired and VK stepped in we all knew it would be different. But we also knew that VK didn't have to build a staff, build a relationship with the players, learn "The Mount way" etc. I think VK has done Ok.  But I also think, and I don't think I am alone in this thinking, that he benefitted from a slow transition. LK started turning duties over to others - play calling, running practices, more freedom to bring in new concepts - JCU won't be able to enjoy a slow, smooth transition.

[Dr. Acula]

If it was just a HC and the rest stayed in place that's one thing - this is much bigger. Not saying it won't work but it isn't easy. No new staff is going to want to continue doing what Tom did. The shift to a different philosophy or system could alienate some of the talent, not saying they transfer - but maybe lose the dedication. We have seen it happen at other levels and in other fields. Capitals decline started very quickly after their HC left. They still had talent (we saw it) but they went from 8-3 in 07 (Collins last year) to 5-5 in Bickel's first year, 7-3, 5-5 and downhill from there.

They should want to do what Tom did!  It worked.

My thinking would be this:  JCU is going to get good applicants.  JCU is almost certainly going to hire a good coach.  A good coach is going to do fine with that roster. 

It'd be one thing if Arth was running the wing T or some crazy spread.  The guy that took over at Cap?  That's an overhaul.  JCU has a QB that can run pretty much any offense because he's athletic AND can throw.  They run a 4-3 defense.  They have really good players.  Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but in D3 isn't most of the equation having dudes?  And they have dudes.  There will be growing pains because they have to learn new stuff, new terms, etc. but I just think a good coach will know how to utilize the talent. 

Your point is well taken though.  The example I would mention is Wabash.  Raeburn left and their very good DC (Hammer) left before him.  While they still had good players this year, including a senior QB, they didn't have the same results.  I recall some of the Wabash posters mentioning that the D wasn't quite as aggressive under the new DC. 
     

[emma17]

If it was just a HC and the rest stayed in place that's one thing - this is much bigger. Not saying it won't work but it isn't easy. No new staff is going to want to continue doing what Tom did. The shift to a different philosophy or system could alienate some of the talent, not saying they transfer - but maybe lose the dedication. We have seen it happen at other levels and in other fields. Capitals decline started very quickly after their HC left. They still had talent (we saw it) but they went from 8-3 in 07 (Collins last year) to 5-5 in Bickel's first year, 7-3, 5-5 and downhill from there.

They should want to do what Tom did!  It worked.

My thinking would be this:  JCU is going to get good applicants.  JCU is almost certainly going to hire a good coach.  A good coach is going to do fine with that roster. 

It'd be one thing if Arth was running the wing T or some crazy spread.  The guy that took over at Cap?  That's an overhaul.  JCU has a QB that can run pretty much any offense because he's athletic AND can throw.  They run a 4-3 defense.  They have really good players.  Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but in D3 isn't most of the equation having dudes?  And they have dudes.  There will be growing pains because they have to learn new stuff, new terms, etc. but I just think a good coach will know how to utilize the talent. 

Your point is well taken though.  The example I would mention is Wabash.  Raeburn left and their very good DC (Hammer) left before him.  While they still had good players this year, including a senior QB, they didn't have the same results.  I recall some of the Wabash posters mentioning that the D wasn't quite as aggressive under the new DC. 
     

I think this is a fascinating subject and one we can probably watch play out over the next couple of years- and maybe get some clarity.
Both UWW and Wabash were/are in the JCU category.  Presumably both programs had the dudes when their very accomplished head coaches, and staff, left.
JCU's cupboards are pretty well stocked.

UWW has only lost 3 games in the last two years, and Wabash only lost 2 games this year, but as impressive as those numbers are, the dudes didn't keep both teams at their previous levels. Will they return?
   

[Desertraider]

If it was just a HC and the rest stayed in place that's one thing - this is much bigger. Not saying it won't work but it isn't easy. No new staff is going to want to continue doing what Tom did. The shift to a different philosophy or system could alienate some of the talent, not saying they transfer - but maybe lose the dedication. We have seen it happen at other levels and in other fields. Capitals decline started very quickly after their HC left. They still had talent (we saw it) but they went from 8-3 in 07 (Collins last year) to 5-5 in Bickel's first year, 7-3, 5-5 and downhill from there.

They should want to do what Tom did!  It worked.

My thinking would be this:  JCU is going to get good applicants.  JCU is almost certainly going to hire a good coach.  A good coach is going to do fine with that roster. 

It'd be one thing if Arth was running the wing T or some crazy spread.  The guy that took over at Cap?  That's an overhaul.  JCU has a QB that can run pretty much any offense because he's athletic AND can throw.  They run a 4-3 defense.  They have really good players.  Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but in D3 isn't most of the equation having dudes?  And they have dudes.  There will be growing pains because they have to learn new stuff, new terms, etc. but I just think a good coach will know how to utilize the talent. 

Your point is well taken though.  The example I would mention is Wabash.  Raeburn left and their very good DC (Hammer) left before him.  While they still had good players this year, including a senior QB, they didn't have the same results.  I recall some of the Wabash posters mentioning that the D wasn't quite as aggressive under the new DC. 
     

You are right - they absolutely should. But more often than not people want to win not by "copying" someone else. I had a CO in the Army and we had a system that worked really well while deployed for OIF. It left me in charge and making decisions, consulting her when needed - she was a "first line leaders, lead" type CO. She got promoted and moved out of theater and the new CO came in and changed everything. Morale dropped off, troops were angry with his rotation schedules and longer hours/no days off  - even though we were doing LESS. The reason - it worked for him and he was in control (though he did no actual work). As soon as he was out - I changed it back. The point is that sometimes leaders overthink it or buy into their own over inflated egos. They have a style that suits them - not those around them. Please don't chime in about good leaders know this or that - I have taught leadership studies for years and am aware. The problem is: every leader thinks they are a good leader, and every leader clearly isn't.

The new HC will say, in interviews with media and players, all the right things: we are going to build on this, the foundation has been laid and we have to continue to progress, go to the next level, etc. etc. Sounds great but it is normally just talking points. In the back of their head, rolling around is the familiar: I am not him, this is the way I do it. Not trying to be a cynic but...my .02 cents.

[JCUStreaks70]

If it was just a HC and the rest stayed in place that's one thing - this is much bigger. Not saying it won't work but it isn't easy. No new staff is going to want to continue doing what Tom did. The shift to a different philosophy or system could alienate some of the talent, not saying they transfer - but maybe lose the dedication. We have seen it happen at other levels and in other fields. Capitals decline started very quickly after their HC left. They still had talent (we saw it) but they went from 8-3 in 07 (Collins last year) to 5-5 in Bickel's first year, 7-3, 5-5 and downhill from there.

They should want to do what Tom did!  It worked.

My thinking would be this:  JCU is going to get good applicants.  JCU is almost certainly going to hire a good coach.  A good coach is going to do fine with that roster. 

It'd be one thing if Arth was running the wing T or some crazy spread.  The guy that took over at Cap?  That's an overhaul.  JCU has a QB that can run pretty much any offense because he's athletic AND can throw.  They run a 4-3 defense.  They have really good players.  Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but in D3 isn't most of the equation having dudes?  And they have dudes.  There will be growing pains because they have to learn new stuff, new terms, etc. but I just think a good coach will know how to utilize the talent. 

Your point is well taken though.  The example I would mention is Wabash.  Raeburn left and their very good DC (Hammer) left before him.  While they still had good players this year, including a senior QB, they didn't have the same results.  I recall some of the Wabash posters mentioning that the D wasn't quite as aggressive under the new DC. 
     

I think this is a fascinating subject and one we can probably watch play out over the next couple of years- and maybe get some clarity.
Both UWW and Wabash were/are in the JCU category.  Presumably both programs had the dudes when their very accomplished head coaches, and staff, left.
JCU's cupboards are pretty well stocked.

UWW has only lost 3 games in the last two years, and Wabash only lost 2 games this year, but as impressive as those numbers are, the dudes didn't keep both teams at their previous levels. Will they return?

Now, I say this as JCU fan, we aren't yet at the UWW Level. If we continue making the playoffs with a few deep runs, then we can maybe say we're in that category.

As for a new coach, JCU became a very lucrative position this season. First, you're already the defending conference champion, so there won't be the need for a "rebuild". Second, there are JCU connections at all levels from DIII to the NFL, so a young coach, say early 30's like Arth was, who has the same long term goals, can come here for 4-5 years to build his resume for the next level. Lastly, with so many guys from JCU going into coaching, there will be the same opportunity to not only hire a grad, but fill many of the positions with grads who know the recruiting style as well as what Arth did to be successful.

As weird as it is to say, I'd be okay if JCU became a trend like this. Young coach comes in, wins consistently for 4-5 years and goes to the next level, all while JCU keeps winning. The JCU brand would continue to grow, and it would mean that we have kept the winning going..

Anyway, that's my two cents on the whole thing.

[Desertraider]

JCUStreaks70 - Agree. This is why I stated earlier that the worst thing they could do would be to hire someone with no connections to JCU or the OAC in general. Another JCU guy would be less likely to "rip it up" and start fresh. I don't think anyone sees it as a rebuild - we all acknowledge the talent is there - it is more a new HC remolding the clay to his image. Anyway - +K

[SaintsFAN]

I believe the coaching search at JCU will impact Mount Union, but not in the way you're probably thinking. 

Under Arth, they became a true rival for the OAC Title - and I believe losing to JCU was the best thing which could've happened to Mount Union with all the young guys playing.  It sent them on the road and they learned more about these kids and the kids about themselves/their teammates through those 4 playoff games than they did in the first 9 games of the season. 

Mount Union needs a JCU to help push them due to current state of the OAC.  They need JCU to get the hire right - they'll be better off with a true in-conference rival.


*I also feel like ONU is closer than most think to competing with the top OAC teams.  They had some success against both JCU and Mount Union this year.  They have a really great RB, who has three years left.  I look for this kid to be North Region Player of the Year before he graduates.

[bluestreak66]

Admittedly, I wasn't paying the closest attention to Capital back in the day, but does anyone know what exactly happened down there when their coach (I forget his name) left for Saginaw Valley? Obviously, that started a tailspin that bottomed out (finally) a few years ago. How similar was that to the Arth situation? I don't need to start worrying about 2-8 seasons, do I? 

[Craft_Beermeister]

Admittedly, I wasn't paying the closest attention to Capital back in the day, but does anyone know what exactly happened down there when their coach (I forget his name) left for Saginaw Valley? Obviously, that started a tailspin that bottomed out (finally) a few years ago. How similar was that to the Arth situation? I don't need to start worrying about 2-8 seasons, do I? 

You don't have to worry about 2-8 seasons. JCU has too much talent for that. Arth recruited well and the the team well stocked. Arth was such a good recruiter that he was able to talk a good portion of the core strength of his staff to go with him. Arth has the program in great shape and I'm sure JCU will attract a lot of good candidates.

In addition to Arth's strong organizational skills and strong coaching skills Tom is a great recruiter. I think that in the area of recruiting Arth will be missed the most especially if JCU has to go out of arrea to get new. Ia h.  JCU has a lot of attractions  for recruits and Arth maximized that advantage.