FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[merlecanlas]

Looking at the All-OAC teams...am I the only person it bugs to have HALF of the conference's QBs on either 1st or 2nd team??  Fulford and Stepp 1st, Wibbeler, Stoyle and Creditt all 2nd.  I know it's tough, but pick someone.  I think each team gets 2 HM spots so if your guy isn't picked make him HM.  And this goes for co-special award winners too.  Hill and Magee shared best WR.  I'll tell you what, give it to Magee as a senior who led the OAC in receiving and tell Hill go leave no doubt next year.  Sorry for the rant.  Now get the heck off my lawn!

I agree and disagree with you Doc.  I agree, five QB's on two teams is nuts, it goes Fulford and then the rest.  He's a soph so he has to share it with a senior. 

But I can't disagree with you more on the WR award.  Magee might be a hell of a player and had a great season, but he is not in the same ballpark as Hill.  Not even close.  Pierre was 2nd team OAC his soph year, so I guess we are moving in the right direction

[merlecanlas]

Easy, tiger.  I don't think anybody is "trying to throw Fulford in prison."  I think people have, rightfully, expressed concern about having him play while he's got some kind of charge lingering around.  Whether you think it's much ado about nothing or not, it's a bad look for Mount Union and Mount Union's brand.  I'm not a hater- I'm genuinely indifferent to the results of Mount Union football games.  But that is the perception.  It's a bad look and the university's "statement" did nothing to change that look. 

And it's not about the school having his back or not.  Wheaton the institution clearly supports their players that got charged in September, yet still took them off the field, probably to the detriment of their season because some stuff is more important than a game of football.  It looks like Mount Union won't do the same.  And, quite frankly, not doing so taints some of the Kehres family righteousness that you use as your own chest-thumping currency around here.  That's how it looks from my neutral perch.

apples and oranges.  Fulford was a juvenile and not a Mount student.  The Wheaton players were adults and their actions were against other Wheaton students.  It looks different to me.

Time to get past the Fulford story. 

Best of luck with that.  The highest profile player playing the highest profile position at the highest profile school in the Division (by light years) being on the field with all of the extra stuff going on off the field is a story every day of every week until Mount Union is out of the tournament or wins it.  That's just the way this is gonna go for the next four weeks.

And this is exactly why I wouldn't have played him last week!   Personally, I have a hard time accepting that he's playing at all, but it's not my team to run.     Mount is already hated for being great with the assumption that LK had to be cheating all those years for him to win so much.  Which we all know to be false, but why give the rest of D3 the platform to throw mud on the castle that LK built?  Being on top means more attention, which means being squeaky clean is the only way to go.  Sometimes to the point of overkill.

If there is nothing to the story beyond a missed court appearance, all of this could have all been defused by simply suspending him immediately, playing W&L with Skunks_Sidekick or MUC57 at QB, then reinstating him for Round 2 after a 'thorough internal investigation turned up nothing of note'.   When Mount came out with their statement so quickly it makes it look like they didn't care.   Whether there is any fire behind the smoke or not.   Heading into Round 1 against an over matched opponent would have made a very easy way to look tough without any ramifications.   Mount should have taken the typical D1 route of sitting the guy against a nobody and then conveniently reinstating him when they needed him.

I respectfully disagree.  I don't think Mount can care whether or not they are hated or loved as a football program.  Being on top means you are going to be hated. 

If it is nothing but a missed juvenile court date, what are you proving to that student athlete by suspending him?  A) When you were 17, you should have handled this and now that you are 19 we are going to punish you?  or B) You have proved to be a responsible student athlete since you arrived in Alliance and have had no problems, we have your back.  Now just make this right.

On the one hand, I wish I had lived such a pristine life as a young man as some on the board, with never breaking any law.  But I think that it is also part of growing up and hopefully, Mr Fulford will learn from this situation and be a better student, better leader, better overall man.

I just can't believe all of the righteous people on these boards.  #whyD3 must be a real thing, only the best and most righteous.

[MUC57]

wally Wabash

You're always the voice of reason and sanity on these boards. You tell it like it is! You don't play favorites, even when it comes to Wabash. Damn refreshing.
Signing off for the Wally Wabash Fan Club.
Oh, and Go Raiders!

[wally_wabash]

Easy, tiger.  I don't think anybody is "trying to throw Fulford in prison."  I think people have, rightfully, expressed concern about having him play while he's got some kind of charge lingering around.  Whether you think it's much ado about nothing or not, it's a bad look for Mount Union and Mount Union's brand.  I'm not a hater- I'm genuinely indifferent to the results of Mount Union football games.  But that is the perception.  It's a bad look and the university's "statement" did nothing to change that look. 

And it's not about the school having his back or not.  Wheaton the institution clearly supports their players that got charged in September, yet still took them off the field, probably to the detriment of their season because some stuff is more important than a game of football.  It looks like Mount Union won't do the same.  And, quite frankly, not doing so taints some of the Kehres family righteousness that you use as your own chest-thumping currency around here.  That's how it looks from my neutral perch.

apples and oranges.  Fulford was a juvenile and not a Mount student.  The Wheaton players were adults and their actions were against other Wheaton students.  It looks different to me.

Yeah, none of that matters.  It looks like Mount Union is keeping Fulford active because he's the one piece of the team that they can't win without.  Like, if the #3 RG got picked up on Wednesday over the same thing, he wouldn't be on the playoff roster.  This is a terrible look.  No amount of hand waving you do can polish this thing up. 

[merlecanlas]

Easy, tiger.  I don't think anybody is "trying to throw Fulford in prison."  I think people have, rightfully, expressed concern about having him play while he's got some kind of charge lingering around.  Whether you think it's much ado about nothing or not, it's a bad look for Mount Union and Mount Union's brand.  I'm not a hater- I'm genuinely indifferent to the results of Mount Union football games.  But that is the perception.  It's a bad look and the university's "statement" did nothing to change that look. 

And it's not about the school having his back or not.  Wheaton the institution clearly supports their players that got charged in September, yet still took them off the field, probably to the detriment of their season because some stuff is more important than a game of football.  It looks like Mount Union won't do the same.  And, quite frankly, not doing so taints some of the Kehres family righteousness that you use as your own chest-thumping currency around here.  That's how it looks from my neutral perch.

apples and oranges.  Fulford was a juvenile and not a Mount student.  The Wheaton players were adults and their actions were against other Wheaton students.  It looks different to me.

Yeah, none of that matters.  It looks like Mount Union is keeping Fulford active because he's the one piece of the team that they can't win without.  Like, if the #3 RG got picked up on Wednesday over the same thing, he wouldn't be on the playoff roster.  This is a terrible look.  No amount of hand waving you do can polish this thing up.

what did he do in 2017 that deserves a suspension?

[wally_wabash]

what did he do in 2017 that deserves a suspension?

Well he got arrested on Wednesday.  Seems like this young man has more important things to deal with than playing a game.  He can be supported by team and university and not play.  Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

Just please don't forget this episode the next time you want to bang on Glen Caruso because he runs up the score every now and then.  You're in the glass house now...might be time to put the rocks down. 

[formerd3db]

Well said, raiderpa.  While those tests are used for what they are, no test ever entirely measures the true talent and knowledge of anyone.  In the end, once a person becomes entrenched in their chosen career when they get to that point, who cares what one's test score was "way back when?"  Heck, I don't even remember my scores from then-nor do I care!  Some of us have had that debate in the medical field.  Having been a member of an orthopedic surgery residency committee, I've seen some candidates with extremely high test scores who, unfortunately, just won't/can't make it otherwise for a number of other just as important reasons. 

Those ACT/SAT scores are all "relative".  Some people just do better on standard testing.  The bottom line is that these young people just have to do the best they can and have a decent competitive score, enough for them to be considered for admission at the school(s) they are applying to (and, by that, please know that I am NOT saying or implying they should only give effort enough to just get by. )     

There's intelligence, there's education and there's wisdom.  From my observations, there's precious little correlation among the three.

That is true e.d.v., in and of each of those as single entities.  Yet the defacto correlation is how one intertwines all three together for the best results.

[merlecanlas]

what did he do in 2017 that deserves a suspension?

Well he got arrested on Wednesday.  Seems like this young man has more important things to deal with than playing a game.  He can be supported by team and university and not play.  Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

Just please don't forget this episode the next time you want to bang on Glen Caruso because he runs up the score every now and then.  You're in the glass house now...might be time to put the rocks down.

Arrested on a warrant.  Not a great thing, but he was not committing a crime at the time.  He can also deal with his important things and play football, not mutually exclusive thing either.  Would Mount have been better to make the kid fly down to FL immediately to pay his fine and then play on Saturday or just fly down there after the semester per the lawyers on both sides?

Glen Caruso running up the score is an a-hole thing to do, giving a kid a chance to make things right is the right thing to do.  If the Mount Union QB was beating up special ed kids while his friends laughed, then maybe we'd be talking about the same thing.  Please share the details of Fulford's juvenile offense.x

I'm guessing at your all-boys college nobody has ever broken any rule, no matter how big or small.  Never been close to a football championship either, but what great young men.  Nobody at Wabash drinks before 21 or smokes even a little pot, or breaks any other law at all.  Sure sounds like college.   

[MUC57]

merlecanlas

I think I understand some of your thinking. I'm an old alumnus and I want to  believe in my alma mater. However; I truly think wally wabash is assessing the situation correctly. All of this is really making the school look bad. This should have been handled differently.
Hey, I love Mount Union as much as anyone. But............!
"The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on", thanks to the Rubiyat (hope I spelled it right). 
What's done is done. We can only hope for an appropriate resolution that is proper for all concerned.
And as one of my favorites, George Carlin might say, "and get on with your life"!

[jamtod]

what did he do in 2017 that deserves a suspension?

Well he got arrested on Wednesday.  Seems like this young man has more important things to deal with than playing a game.  He can be supported by team and university and not play.  Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

Just please don't forget this episode the next time you want to bang on Glen Caruso because he runs up the score every now and then.  You're in the glass house now...might be time to put the rocks down.

Arrested on a warrant.  Not a great thing, but he was not committing a crime at the time.  He can also deal with his important things and play football, not mutually exclusive thing either.  Would Mount have been better to make the kid fly down to FL immediately to pay his fine and then play on Saturday or just fly down there after the semester per the lawyers on both sides?

Glen Caruso running up the score is an a-hole thing to do, giving a kid a chance to make things right is the right thing to do.  If the Mount Union QB was beating up special ed kids while his friends laughed, then maybe we'd be talking about the same thing.  Please share the details of Fulford's juvenile offense.x

I'm guessing at your all-boys college nobody has ever broken any rule, no matter how big or small.  Never been close to a football championship either, but what great young men.  Nobody at Wabash drinks before 21 or smokes even a little pot, or breaks any other law at all.  Sure sounds like college.

I don't see anybody trying to condemn or excuse somebody making mistakes. Mistakes happen, nobody's perfect, every school has its warts to deal with (see article above about Tommie the Tomcat wiping his butt with political literature and issues pertaining to a Priest - not the head or even employed at the seminary - of whom I am quite familiar with him, the victim, and the whole situation). There is no need to deny that. The question becomes: how do we deal with these things when they happen? The standard in college athletics is that when a situation like this comes along, the player typically sits. Heck, for all I know, he did beat up special ed kids back in high school.

[Dr. Acula]

Time to get past the Fulford story. 

Best of luck with that.  The highest profile player playing the highest profile position at the highest profile school in the Division (by light years) being on the field with all of the extra stuff going on off the field is a story every day of every week until Mount Union is out of the tournament or wins it.  That's just the way this is gonna go for the next four weeks.

And this is exactly why I wouldn't have played him last week!   Personally, I have a hard time accepting that he's playing at all, but it's not my team to run.     Mount is already hated for being great with the assumption that LK had to be cheating all those years for him to win so much.  Which we all know to be false, but why give the rest of D3 the platform to throw mud on the castle that LK built?  Being on top means more attention, which means being squeaky clean is the only way to go.  Sometimes to the point of overkill.

If there is nothing to the story beyond a missed court appearance, all of this could have all been defused by simply suspending him immediately, playing W&L with Skunks_Sidekick or MUC57 at QB, then reinstating him for Round 2 after a 'thorough internal investigation turned up nothing of note'.   When Mount came out with their statement so quickly it makes it look like they didn't care.   Whether there is any fire behind the smoke or not.   Heading into Round 1 against an over matched opponent would have made a very easy way to look tough without any ramifications.   Mount should have taken the typical D1 route of sitting the guy against a nobody and then conveniently reinstating him when they needed him.

We're all just playing arm chair QB here, but I think this would have been the best compromise for all sides.  I understand why some think it's overkill to suspend him out of the gate.  I also understand some of my fellow alumni wanting him in street clothes too.  To me the easiest out would have been to sit him round 1 (in a game you're in no danger of losing) and reinstate him this week if warranted.  I'll say this again though, I can't believe that LK would risk tarnishing the program even a minute amount to allow VK to play Fulford in a 1st round game.  I want to believe that they have more info than we do and it'll all come out in the wash soon enough. 

[jamtod]

Time to get past the Fulford story. 

Best of luck with that.  The highest profile player playing the highest profile position at the highest profile school in the Division (by light years) being on the field with all of the extra stuff going on off the field is a story every day of every week until Mount Union is out of the tournament or wins it.  That's just the way this is gonna go for the next four weeks.

And this is exactly why I wouldn't have played him last week!   Personally, I have a hard time accepting that he's playing at all, but it's not my team to run.     Mount is already hated for being great with the assumption that LK had to be cheating all those years for him to win so much.  Which we all know to be false, but why give the rest of D3 the platform to throw mud on the castle that LK built?  Being on top means more attention, which means being squeaky clean is the only way to go.  Sometimes to the point of overkill.

If there is nothing to the story beyond a missed court appearance, all of this could have all been defused by simply suspending him immediately, playing W&L with Skunks_Sidekick or MUC57 at QB, then reinstating him for Round 2 after a 'thorough internal investigation turned up nothing of note'.   When Mount came out with their statement so quickly it makes it look like they didn't care.   Whether there is any fire behind the smoke or not.   Heading into Round 1 against an over matched opponent would have made a very easy way to look tough without any ramifications.   Mount should have taken the typical D1 route of sitting the guy against a nobody and then conveniently reinstating him when they needed him.

We're all just playing arm chair QB here, but I think this would have been the best compromise for all sides.  I understand why some think it's overkill to suspend him out of the gate.  I also understand some of my fellow alumni wanting him in street clothes too.  To me the easiest out would have been to sit him round 1 (in a game you're in no danger of losing) and reinstate him this week if warranted.  I'll say this again though, I can't believe that LK would risk tarnishing the program even a minute amount to allow VK to play Fulford in a 1st round game.  I want to believe that they have more info than we do and it'll all come out in the wash soon enough.

I've seen a lot of references to LK and his legacy. I understand that he is still the AD, but he's not the head football coach anymore right? Does he still exert that much influence on the program as a legendary figure (understandable) or is there some reason to not trust VK as a man of integrity upholding his father's tradition, that it is necessary to call back to the hollowed name of LK whenever something comes up?

[wm4]

Getting arrested for assault on a Thursday and starting at QB on Saturday is never a good look, no matter the team or division of football.  It's going to draw harsh and just criticism, and raise very valid questions about Mount Union's football priorities.  Mount created this and invited these questions by their actions.  We don't know all the facts about the charges and it's certainly fair to let them all come out before passing judgement on Fulford, but how Mount has handled this has made them a target. 

[merlecanlas]

what did he do in 2017 that deserves a suspension?

Well he got arrested on Wednesday.  Seems like this young man has more important things to deal with than playing a game.  He can be supported by team and university and not play.  Those aren't mutually exclusive. 

Just please don't forget this episode the next time you want to bang on Glen Caruso because he runs up the score every now and then.  You're in the glass house now...might be time to put the rocks down.

Arrested on a warrant.  Not a great thing, but he was not committing a crime at the time.  He can also deal with his important things and play football, not mutually exclusive thing either.  Would Mount have been better to make the kid fly down to FL immediately to pay his fine and then play on Saturday or just fly down there after the semester per the lawyers on both sides?

Glen Caruso running up the score is an a-hole thing to do, giving a kid a chance to make things right is the right thing to do.  If the Mount Union QB was beating up special ed kids while his friends laughed, then maybe we'd be talking about the same thing.  Please share the details of Fulford's juvenile offense.x

I'm guessing at your all-boys college nobody has ever broken any rule, no matter how big or small.  Never been close to a football championship either, but what great young men.  Nobody at Wabash drinks before 21 or smokes even a little pot, or breaks any other law at all.  Sure sounds like college.

I don't see anybody trying to condemn or excuse somebody making mistakes. Mistakes happen, nobody's perfect, every school has its warts to deal with (see article above about Tommie the Tomcat wiping his butt with political literature and issues pertaining to a Priest - not the head or even employed at the seminary - of whom I am quite familiar with him, the victim, and the whole situation). There is no need to deny that. The question becomes: how do we deal with these things when they happen? The standard in college athletics is that when a situation like this comes along, the player typically sits. Heck, for all I know, he did beat up special ed kids back in high school.

Glen would probably approve of it, if it made us better.  None of us know exactly what happened in juvenile court.  I trust that the Mount coaches know more about this situation then anybody posting on d3boards.  With their history of booting kids, I am fine with their judgement. 

merlecanlas

I think I understand some of your thinking. I'm an old alumnus and I want to  believe in my alma mater. However; I truly think wally wabash is assessing the situation correctly. All of this is really making the school look bad. This should have been handled differently.
Hey, I love Mount Union as much as anyone. But............!
"The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on", thanks to the Rubiyat (hope I spelled it right). 
What's done is done. We can only hope for an appropriate resolution that is proper for all concerned.
And as one of my favorites, George Carlin might say, "and get on with your life"!

I get it man, and I respect your opinion.  But "the school looking bad" will pass incredibly quickly, but doing wrong to the student will stick with him for life.  If it comes out that Fulford did something horrible, then I will call the President myself to give him the boot, but it seems like the only people out for blood are those who don't know the facts.

If Fulford was such a monster, then why is the state of FL alright with him being free for the next month?  I will trust in the legal system and he will be made responsible for his mistake.  Just like every other person in America would be. 

[PRP96]

Since none of us on the outside know the full story with Mr. Fulford,  I'd like to propose a hypothetical scenario to the D3 football world.
Situation.  Young man, 17, gets arrested.  Mom is concerned that this will end or at least significantly hurt son's chance to attend college.  Mom moves with son.  Does not change address with post office.  Mom then tells son, "Son, the charges have been dropped."  Son believes mother.  Fast forward 2 years and son is arrested for a routine traffic stop.  In this scenario, does anyone change their mind on if the son should play, be benched, or suspended from the football team?