FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[WRMUalum13]

A lot of ankle injuries.  Are there some gopher holes out there that we don't know about?

In my opinion, I feel that there are more ACL, ankle and head injuries now with everyone playing on turf. The surface has no give , cleats get caught easily and you can take a wrong step that leads to a major injury. Especially non contact injuries, but that's my "I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" doctor opinion....

I'd like to look Into this, I wonder if there are any studies on injury rate vs playing surface

[formerd3db]

A lot of ankle injuries.  Are there some gopher holes out there that we don't know about?

In my opinion, I feel that there are more ACL, ankle and head injuries now with everyone playing on turf. The surface has no give , cleats get caught easily and you can take a wrong step that leads to a major injury. Especially non contact injuries, but that's my "I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" doctor opinion....

I'd like to look Into this, I wonder if there are any studies on injury rate vs playing surface

Not true. The undersurface of the new turfs as well as the top surface  itself are much softer than the old synthetic systems. The increased concussions have actually been a combination of several factors inclusive of bigger, faster, stronger players at all levels, and even more so by increased awareness/ recognition and progressive research showing the long-term effects of concussion syndromes. As far as ACL and collateral ligament injuries, when the first synthetic turfs came out the,old AstriTurf and OmniTurf, there was extensive controversy as to whether or not those caused and/or predisposed players to ligament injuries. Many studies were done and the conclusion was a "draw" 1/2 said yes, the other half said no. My personal opinion, after direct observation as well as having played on both surfaces (both old and new) is "no.". One year @ Alma College, all our knee injuries occorred on natural grass fields, while the following year, they all occurred on synthetic turf. Granted, that was back in the late 1990s on the old turf, however, I believe that most of the new i.e. more recent studies that have been published suggest otherwise.. And even if there were ones that say potential increased occurrence or risk, , how does one account for studies that say the exact opposite conclusions of each other. The new "evidence based" medicine philosopgy is not always correct.

Anyway, we can Google the literature and I will check a couple of sports medicine journals to check on your question as to ankle and ACL injuries possible increase with regard to the new turf,. However, even if there are, again, my own opinion, from direct involvement and observation us that it is not true. Those injuries and their occourrane/potential will always obviously be present regardless of the playing surface. Legit question/inquiry though. All that said, the subject remains controversial, as does almost all aspects of medcine and orthopedic surgey, including sports medicine, today.

[formerd3db]

WRMUalum:

Here are just a few articles for you to check(there are many more, of course).

1) Steffen, Katherine, British Journal or Sports Medicine, 2006, Overall Effects on Female Footballer players regarding ACL sprais on Artificial Turf versus Natural Turf.. conclusion was the results were similar ( there are other studies regarding male football players with similar conclusion

2) T.J. Smith, 2016, Oviolive, posted

3) Ekstrand, J, 2006, BJSM

4)Drako, Mark, M.D. Hospital for Special Surger (NY), 2008, Artificial Turf,Does It increase the risk of sports injuries (ankle, ACL, concussion)? 2008, conclusion graphs show they were similar- statistical difference was not significantly

There are many more you can check, however, I just thought I would mention these as a start ( my apologies for the poor specific reference title, etc.I  didn't want to overdo it here😀). Just thought this might be helpful to you to as a start in checking these out further. As mentioned, however, my own opinion will not change.☺

Best,
formerd3db

[Craft_Beermeister]

Keaney is playing well, did what he had to do!!!

Um, no

11-15 287 4 tds is bad?

Yes.  If you saw it live you would understand

I think he did okay.  No one was expecting a Poorman-esque performance.  But against Denison they just needed to not turn it over.  Low bar I know.  He didn't throw it downfield and he held it too long at times, but he's a sophomore making his first start (and taking his first meaningful snaps) in a playoff game.  Didn't we expect nerves?  They called the game accordingly.

The handling of Keeney has been a puzzle to me all year.  They were very high on him going into the season, then Burkes shows up in the Otterbein game and Keeney disappears.  Burkes is a great runner, fun to watch, but a one-dimensional QB, which is what he is, is not and never was what Mount would need absent Fulford.  I can't understand the failure to give Keeney more meaningful snaps during the season.  The playoffs are not the time to "get him ready".

rscl70

I agree that the playoffs aren't the best time to get Keaney ready, but they have no choice now. I expect Keaney got all of the meaningful, if not all, reps with number one offence last week in practice and will get them the next several weeks. In the next 2 or 3 games I expect Keaney to get the majority of snaps as well.

[hsbsballcoach7]

A lot of ankle injuries.  Are there some gopher holes out there that we don't know about?

In my opinion, I feel that there are more ACL, ankle and head injuries now with everyone playing on turf. The surface has no give , cleats get caught easily and you can take a wrong step that leads to a major injury. Especially non contact injuries, but that's my "I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" doctor opinion....

I'd like to look Into this, I wonder if there are any studies on injury rate vs playing surface

y7

Not true. The undersurface of the new tires are much softer than the old synthetic systems. The increased concussions have actually been a combination if several factors inclusive of bigger, faztet, stronger players at all levels, and even more so by increased awareness/ recognition and progressive research showing the long-term effects olof concussion syndromes. As far as ACK and collateral ligament injuries, when the first sy thetic turfs came out the old AstriTurf and OmniTurf, there was extensive controversy as to whether or not those caused and/or predisposed players to ligament injuries. Many studies were done and the conclusion was a "draw" 1/2 said yes, the other half said no. My in oersonal opinion, after direct observation as well as having played on both surfaces (both old and new) is "no.". One year @ Alma College, all our knee injuries occorred on natural grass fields, while the following year, they all occurred on synthetic turf. Granted, that was back in the late 1990s on the old turf, however, I am not aware of new studies that have suggested ithetwiae. And even if there were, how does one account for studies that say the exact t opposite conclusions of each other. The new "evidence based" medicine philosopgy is not always correct.

Anyway, we can Google the literature and I will check a couple of sports medicine journals to check on your question as to ankle and ACL injuries possible increase with regard to the new turf,. However, even if there are, again, my own opinion, from direct involvement and observation us that it is not true. Those injuries and their occourrane/potential will always obviously be present regardless of the playing surface. Legit question/inquiry though.

I have no statistics to back up my opinion, I just feel like I've seen many more ankle rolls and knee injuries because the foot catches unexpectedly in the turf..... Or the turf monster got you!! I don't love turf for football, but I'm excited as an Ohio baseball coach that it is becoming more popular. We lose so many games to weather bc of Ohio spring.... But I digress

Anyway... Onto next week. I feel that Centre will be a tough team, obviously they're in the playoffs. Their defense gives up points, but their offense can move the ball well. From a quick look at some highlights, QB1 throws very good balls. I did read a wrap up of the last game vs WJ hand their QB1 got injured and didn't come back, then they relied on running the ball for the rest of the game. It was good to see all lot the purple raider defense fly to the ball yesterday and they've been improving.

Happy Thanksgiving and bring in more football!!!!

[formerd3db]

hsbsballcoach7:

Obviously, I do like the new turf for football. However, I also agree with you that it is good for baseball. Thanks for your input. Certainly, you have direct observations that are legit. We all have to base our opinions on what we personally experience and observe, not some published paper of often scewed statistics and/or questionable and/or inadvertent mis-interpretations.

But, as you say, back to the playoffs. It will be interesting to see how Centre plays out. This is perhaps there best team in a very long time. I'm sure that many fans don't want to see them be an incarnation of their famous 1921 team that pulled one if the greatest upsets in the history of college football in that famous upset of nationally ranked Harvard!😀
Anyway, yes, Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone!

[joelmama]

A lot of ankle injuries.  Are there some gopher holes out there that we don't know about?

In my opinion, I feel that there are more ACL, ankle and head injuries now with everyone playing on turf. The surface has no give , cleats get caught easily and you can take a wrong step that leads to a major injury. Especially non contact injuries, but that's my "I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" doctor opinion....

I'd like to look Into this, I wonder if there are any studies on injury rate vs playing surface

y7

Not true. The undersurface of the new tires are much softer than the old synthetic systems. The increased concussions have actually been a combination if several factors inclusive of bigger, faztet, stronger players at all levels, and even more so by increased awareness/ recognition and progressive research showing the long-term effects olof concussion syndromes. As far as ACK and collateral ligament injuries, when the first sy thetic turfs came out the old AstriTurf and OmniTurf, there was extensive controversy as to whether or not those caused and/or predisposed players to ligament injuries. Many studies were done and the conclusion was a "draw" 1/2 said yes, the other half said no. My in oersonal opinion, after direct observation as well as having played on both surfaces (both old and new) is "no.". One year @ Alma College, all our knee injuries occorred on natural grass fields, while the following year, they all occurred on synthetic turf. Granted, that was back in the late 1990s on the old turf, however, I am not aware of new studies that have suggested ithetwiae. And even if there were, how does one account for studies that say the exact t opposite conclusions of each other. The new "evidence based" medicine philosopgy is not always correct.

Anyway, we can Google the literature and I will check a couple of sports medicine journals to check on your question as to ankle and ACL injuries possible increase with regard to the new turf,. However, even if there are, again, my own opinion, from direct involvement and observation us that it is not true. Those injuries and their occourrane/potential will always obviously be present regardless of the playing surface. Legit question/inquiry though.

I have no statistics to back up my opinion, I just feel like I've seen many more ankle rolls and knee injuries because the foot catches unexpectedly in the turf..... Or the turf monster got you!! I don't love turf for football, but I'm excited as an Ohio baseball coach that it is becoming more popular. We lose so many games to weather bc of Ohio spring.... But I digress

Anyway... Onto next week. I feel that Centre will be a tough team, obviously they're in the playoffs. Their defense gives up points, but their offense can move the ball well. From a quick look at some highlights, QB1 throws very good balls. I did read a wrap up of the last game vs WJ hand their QB1 got injured and didn't come back, then they relied on running the ball for the rest of the game. It was good to see all lot the purple raider defense fly to the ball yesterday and they've been improving.

Happy Thanksgiving and bring in more football!!!!

As a former athletic trainer I will spout off my two cents worth.  The old style turf was bad news but that is gone almost everywhere.  So a well maintained new style turf in my opinion will have fewer injuries all things being equal (a well maintained grass field).  Not a huge difference but just a truer surface that gives the right amount when maintained properly. (it si not expensive to do so right just takes a lot of surveillance and willingness to mend problem areas regularly.

[formerd3db]

Joelmama:

Well said and I agree with you. At the same time,  as a former college player, former college assist coach, and long time college fb team physician/orthopedic surgeon, I can say/share with you that there are some schools that simply are not able to maintain a grass field to the safety parameters it needs to be for both personnel and financial reasons. Thus, the new artificial turfs are a very appropriate choice for them (the issue of funding for that is often times taken care of via the alumni and other donors, yet even if otherwise, the investment the school makes in going with  the synthetic option pays for itself many times over.). Also, it is a "must" for most schools to ""keep up with the Joneses sp?" in the recruiting wars even at the DIII level. But, I agree with you that a perfectly maintained grass field is also fun (and safe) to play on. I have seen, though, some very unsafe and horrible fields.

Thanks for your perspective.

[raiderpa]

I thought that maybe the coaches were tired of seeing Evans-Morris juke and run away from inside holes to try to get bigger yardage outside and often failing. That is my very uninformed and unprofessional opinion and thoughts on his performance.  I would practically scream when he would do this, and against faster playoff teams would invariably get caught for little or no gain.  He got away with the moves against the bottom feeders, but the schtick did not go against speed.

Garcia and Petro see the hole, accelerate through it, then look for a cut. They are both much more effective, IMO.
It will be interesting to see Centre against the Mount D.  Their backup QB played well, but I hope the starter is ready to go.
I really think the defense is national championship calibre, but the offense may be the deciding factor whether #14 is achievable. Again uninformed and unprofessional opinion. 

[hsbsballcoach7]

I thought that maybe the coaches were tired of seeing Evans-Morris juke and run away from inside holes to try to get bigger yardage outside and often failing. That is my very uninformed and unprofessional opinion and thoughts on his performance.  I would practically scream when he would do this, and against faster playoff teams would invariably get caught for little or no gain.  He got away with the moves against the bottom feeders, but the schtick did not go against speed.

Garcia and Petro see the hole, accelerate through it, then look for a cut. They are both much more effective, IMO.
It will be interesting to see Centre against the Mount D.  Their backup QB played well, but I hope the starter is ready to go.
I really think the defense is national championship calibre, but the offense may be the deciding factor whether #14 is achievable. Again uninformed and unprofessional opinion.

Who are you kidding??? In our minds we're all professionals at something....I know it's early for 2 guys, but I'm excited to keep an eye on linebackers Caleb Smith and Carson Kovath. They almost look like they can be similar to Gonnell and Hank Spencer a couple of years ago. Quick, good reads and solid tackling. Lots of young guns on defense hopefully getting experience and ready to step up next year with Robinson, Berry, Cox, White, Brish. I'm still confident Mount will win, but matchups are getting interesting now.
UMHB has a fantastic defense as usual, but their offense hasn't opened up like I thought they would with a better QB. I think Johns Hopkins can get Frostburg State...FSU seems to be giving up more than they did last year and JHU had been playing great football since their loss early in the season.
Brockport isn't playing defense like they did last year and RPI could keep it close enough to steal a win.
NCC/Bethel will be good, but I'm curious to see how St Norbert holds up against UWW and Whitworth against St John's. Don't think either will win, but could make it interesting.
Starting to heat up!!!

[BillyRayJimBob]

Time for a replay of the C6H0 story that I recall being brought to my attention via these boards in 2011 (outcome was a 30-10 Mount Union win).
Good college football fan read.  Sorry for the quick Wikipedia link.  If Centre fans have a better one, please post it here.
Cheers!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1921_Centre_vs._Harvard_football_game

[formerd3db]

Time for a replay of the C6H0 story that I recall being brought to my attention via these boards in 2011 (outcome was a 30-10 Mount Union win).
Good college football fan read.  Sorry for the quick Wikipedia link.  If Centre fans have a better one, please post it here.
Cheers!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1921_Centre_vs._Harvard_football_game

Indeed, a great story.  If would be interesting to hear what today's Centre's fans think about this-if they even do!  It might have been way too long/out of the realm for today's students since it was almost 100 years ago (except of course, for either the die-hard college history buffs/fans including us old guys in that category!)

[raiderpa]

I thought that maybe the coaches were tired of seeing Evans-Morris juke and run away from inside holes to try to get bigger yardage outside and often failing. That is my very uninformed and unprofessional opinion and thoughts on his performance.  I would practically scream when he would do this, and against faster playoff teams would invariably get caught for little or no gain.  He got away with the moves against the bottom feeders, but the schtick did not go against speed.

Garcia and Petro see the hole, accelerate through it, then look for a cut. They are both much more effective, IMO.
It will be interesting to see Centre against the Mount D.  Their backup QB played well, but I hope the starter is ready to go.



I really think the defense is national championship calibre, but the offense may be the deciding factor whether #14 is achievable. Again uninformed and unprofessional opinion.

Who are you kidding??? In our minds we're all professionals at something....I know it's early for 2 guys, but I'm excited to keep an eye on linebackers Caleb Smith and Carson Kovath. They almost look like they can be similar to Gonnell and Hank Spencer a couple of years ago. Quick, good reads and solid tackling. Lots of young guns on defense hopefully getting experience and ready to step up next year with Robinson, Berry, Cox, White, Brish. I'm still confident Mount will win, but matchups are getting interesting now.
UMHB has a fantastic defense as usual, but their offense hasn't opened up like I thought they would with a better QB. I think Johns Hopkins can get Frostburg State...FSU seems to be giving up more than they did last year and JHU had been playing great football since their loss early in the season.
Brockport isn't playing defense like they did last year and RPI could keep it close enough to steal a win.
NCC/Bethel will be good, but I'm curious to see how St Norbert holds up against UWW and Whitworth against St John's. Don't think either will win, but could make it interesting.
Starting to heat up!!!

Kovath appears to be a beast already as a frosh, he would start anywhere else in the conference and be a stud.  Smith has been good as well, but Kovath OMgoodness.

[Craft_Beermeister]

I thought that maybe the coaches were tired of seeing Evans-Morris juke and run away from inside holes to try to get bigger yardage outside and often failing. That is my very uninformed and unprofessional opinion and thoughts on his performance.  I would practically scream when he would do this, and against faster playoff teams would invariably get caught for little or no gain.  He got away with the moves against the bottom feeders, but the schtick did not go against speed.

Garcia and Petro see the hole, accelerate through it, then look for a cut. They are both much more effective, IMO.
It will be interesting to see Centre against the Mount D.  Their backup QB played well, but I hope the starter is ready to go.
I really think the defense is national championship calibre, but the offense may be the deciding factor whether #14 is achievable. Again uninformed and unprofessional opinion.

I suspect Centre offense will a though going against Mount D.  Keeney will get another game of experience and hopefully continues to grow. In the long run D'Angelo Fulford mentoring Keeney might be beneficial to expanding D'Angelo's mental grasp of the game as he shares tips with Keeney.

Hope Mount Union's can step up even more as they advance further in the playoffs.

[edward de vere]

Considering the proper thrashing Centre administered to W & J, I'm very interested to see what "Spanky's" line will be.