FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[MUC57]

It's great that LK will be the QB coach. Not sure there was a major problem at that position.
Now, coaching?  That area needs some work.
Just my, and a few other peoples opinion. But what do I know?
Go Raiders!   

Dartt is starting his "third" season with a record of 17-1.  Let's give him a little more time before we get out the tar and feathers.

Wait a minute.I never said anything about "tar and feathers". My exact quote was,"Now coaching? That area needs some work". I think that"s certainly true. And it goes beyond the head coach as well!.
Please don't credit me with things I didn't say or even implied. Hey, we're on the same team! Go Raiders! 

[MUC57]

The importance of Mount Union football, from the pages of history.

Reflecting upon the 1922 season, Coach John "Jack" Thorpe said:  "The disastrous season of 1921 had broken the spirit of the players and ruined the morale of the student body, so it was indeed a pleasant surprise to win seven out of the nine starts."

Ruined the morale of the student body.  MUC57, you were there.  Is that really true?

ed

That was the freshman year of my 7 year undergraduate experience. As such, I was shielded, pretty much, from certain goings-on. I did hear some talk from some of the older guys, many of whom were back from "the war to end all wars" and "the war to make the world safe for democracy". So, therefore, I can't really answer your question. I just don't know!
As always, nice chatting with you.   

P.S. I'm only 3 hours, or 1 course, short of my degree. WOW!

[D3fanboy]

I get the anti-Mount bias from Pat and his buddy, but when did UMHB win "three Stagg Bowls" according to Gerg?

I think I pretty well reiterate our stance on this during my interview with Brad Spencer, if you've made it that far. Also not sure how your perception of our bias played out in this statement. What am I missing?

"Why is the WIAC the best"  not a single peep from the D3 boys about the "cheap/public" tuition from our WI friends....interesting

That's not a differentiator. One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

1) Just listened, I get the difference between "winning the Stagg" vs "national champion".  But why does D3football protect the lone D3 football national champion to embarrassingly have a title revoked?

2)  you and I both know that in-state tuition is a huge, huge part of the WIAC's success.  I'd love to see a breakdown of D3 publics vs privates.  I'm sure that NY public schools are a large number of your "one-fourth", but they could not care less about football.

Not just New York, but also New Jersey and Massachusetts have a large number, plus schools such as Salisbury, Christopher Newport, Sul Ross, Minnesota-Morris. This obviously spans a wide spectrum of schools and football programs, but they do exist outside of Wisconsin and New York. Yes, the listed sticker price is lower but we all know that private schools have a tremendous amount of leeway with financial aid. Even with my non-athletic children, one is finishing a degree at one of the most expensive schools in the country and will pay far less out of pocket than my youngest, who is almost certainly going to go to a state school.

I am not sure I would use the term protect, but yes, reflecting what happened on the field. They came away with the trophy. They won the game. Heck, even this year's official Stagg Bowl game program listed UMHB as the winner of two previous Stagg Bowls.

I guess that I missed the NY, NJ, or MA football schools that are national title contenders, but WI is full of title contenders....hmm.  I'm glad that the little Colemans arent paying full price. 

[Pat Coleman]

I get the anti-Mount bias from Pat and his buddy, but when did UMHB win "three Stagg Bowls" according to Gerg?

I think I pretty well reiterate our stance on this during my interview with Brad Spencer, if you've made it that far. Also not sure how your perception of our bias played out in this statement. What am I missing?

"Why is the WIAC the best"  not a single peep from the D3 boys about the "cheap/public" tuition from our WI friends....interesting

That's not a differentiator. One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

1) Just listened, I get the difference between "winning the Stagg" vs "national champion".  But why does D3football protect the lone D3 football national champion to embarrassingly have a title revoked?

2)  you and I both know that in-state tuition is a huge, huge part of the WIAC's success.  I'd love to see a breakdown of D3 publics vs privates.  I'm sure that NY public schools are a large number of your "one-fourth", but they could not care less about football.

Not just New York, but also New Jersey and Massachusetts have a large number, plus schools such as Salisbury, Christopher Newport, Sul Ross, Minnesota-Morris. This obviously spans a wide spectrum of schools and football programs, but they do exist outside of Wisconsin and New York. Yes, the listed sticker price is lower but we all know that private schools have a tremendous amount of leeway with financial aid. Even with my non-athletic children, one is finishing a degree at one of the most expensive schools in the country and will pay far less out of pocket than my youngest, who is almost certainly going to go to a state school.

I am not sure I would use the term protect, but yes, reflecting what happened on the field. They came away with the trophy. They won the game. Heck, even this year's official Stagg Bowl game program listed UMHB as the winner of two previous Stagg Bowls.

I guess that I missed the NY, NJ, or MA football schools that are national title contenders, but WI is full of title contenders....hmm. 

I think you're making my point for me:

• All state schools have lower sticker-price tuition compared to private schools.
• Only the WIAC schools are national title contenders in football.

Therefore, the lower sticker-price tuition at a state school is not the reason why the WIAC schools are better at this football thing.

[WRMUalum13]

I get the anti-Mount bias from Pat and his buddy, but when did UMHB win "three Stagg Bowls" according to Gerg?

I think I pretty well reiterate our stance on this during my interview with Brad Spencer, if you've made it that far. Also not sure how your perception of our bias played out in this statement. What am I missing?

"Why is the WIAC the best"  not a single peep from the D3 boys about the "cheap/public" tuition from our WI friends....interesting

That's not a differentiator. One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

1) Just listened, I get the difference between "winning the Stagg" vs "national champion".  But why does D3football protect the lone D3 football national champion to embarrassingly have a title revoked?

2)  you and I both know that in-state tuition is a huge, huge part of the WIAC's success.  I'd love to see a breakdown of D3 publics vs privates.  I'm sure that NY public schools are a large number of your "one-fourth", but they could not care less about football.

Not just New York, but also New Jersey and Massachusetts have a large number, plus schools such as Salisbury, Christopher Newport, Sul Ross, Minnesota-Morris. This obviously spans a wide spectrum of schools and football programs, but they do exist outside of Wisconsin and New York. Yes, the listed sticker price is lower but we all know that private schools have a tremendous amount of leeway with financial aid. Even with my non-athletic children, one is finishing a degree at one of the most expensive schools in the country and will pay far less out of pocket than my youngest, who is almost certainly going to go to a state school.

I am not sure I would use the term protect, but yes, reflecting what happened on the field. They came away with the trophy. They won the game. Heck, even this year's official Stagg Bowl game program listed UMHB as the winner of two previous Stagg Bowls.

I guess that I missed the NY, NJ, or MA football schools that are national title contenders, but WI is full of title contenders....hmm. 

I think you're making my point for me:

• All state schools have lower sticker-price tuition compared to private schools.
• Only the WIAC schools are national title contenders in football.

Therefore, the lower sticker-price tuition at a state school is not the reason why the WIAC schools are better at this football thing.

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

I don't really know the landscape of NJ and NY, so I could be totally wrong, but I know at least in Ohio, there's like 10-11 in state options for football players that are not D3

[Pat Coleman]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

[Pat Coleman]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

It's not all of Wisconsin -- Minnesota students can get reciprocity at schools near the border like La Crosse and River Falls (maybe Stout and Eau Claire?) and Illinois students can do so at Whitewater and I think Iowa students at Platteville.

[D3fanboy]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

It's not all of Wisconsin -- Minnesota students can get reciprocity at schools near the border like La Crosse and River Falls (maybe Stout and Eau Claire?) and Illinois students can do so at Whitewater and I think Iowa students at Platteville.

So Whitewater can get Wisconsin and Illinois (Chicago) football recruits at state school price?  and you dont think thats an advantage?  LOL

[Pat Coleman]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

It's not all of Wisconsin -- Minnesota students can get reciprocity at schools near the border like La Crosse and River Falls (maybe Stout and Eau Claire?) and Illinois students can do so at Whitewater and I think Iowa students at Platteville.

So Whitewater can get Wisconsin and Illinois (Chicago) football recruits at state school price?  and you dont think thats an advantage?  LOL

It does seem like your MO is just to deliberately misread what I say, but I'll say it again, in case you missed it.

One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

It is absolutely an advantage. But in-state tuition is not the overarching reason why the WIAC field successful football teams.

[D3fanboy]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

It's not all of Wisconsin -- Minnesota students can get reciprocity at schools near the border like La Crosse and River Falls (maybe Stout and Eau Claire?) and Illinois students can do so at Whitewater and I think Iowa students at Platteville.

So Whitewater can get Wisconsin and Illinois (Chicago) football recruits at state school price?  and you dont think thats an advantage?  LOL

It does seem like your MO is just to deliberately misread what I say, but I'll say it again, in case you missed it.

One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

It is absolutely an advantage. But in-state tuition is not the overarching reason why the WIAC field successful football teams.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

It's not all of Wisconsin -- Minnesota students can get reciprocity at schools near the border like La Crosse and River Falls (maybe Stout and Eau Claire?) and Illinois students can do so at Whitewater and I think Iowa students at Platteville.

So Whitewater can get Wisconsin and Illinois (Chicago) football recruits at state school price?  and you dont think thats an advantage?  LOL

It does seem like your MO is just to deliberately misread what I say, but I'll say it again, in case you missed it.

One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

It is absolutely an advantage. But in-state tuition is not the overarching reason why the WIAC field successful football teams.

IMO, in-State Public Tuition does have it's advantages.  Especially in a State (Wisconsin) that only has One FBS School, Zero FCS and D2 Schools, and two NAIA Schools that have football.

I believe that the WIAC gets their pick of the litter, over the other Private D3 schools in Wisconsin, because of their more affordable tuition.  Tradition of good football helps as well.

What other D3 Conferences are there that are State Schools with limited other opportunities to play football.

[Pat Coleman]

New Jersey has Rutgers, Monmouth (which I think is fully funded FCS scholarship at this point) and Princeton (which as an Ivy, probably is not pulling kids from D-III).

No D-II football in New Jersey.

Five state D-III schools and one private.

No NAIA schools.

New York is also gigantic -- just one D-II school. Obviously, a number of FCS programs in New York, though.

[D3fanboy]

... and in Ohio, the number of D-II options has definitely grown in the past 15 years or so, but OAC schools have expanded their recruiting base to match. Plus, in-state or out-of-state tuition is the same, which is not the case with state schools (with limited exceptions).

But isn't the difference that the WIAC is the ONLY state school option for pretty much any high school football player who wants to go to an in-state public school besides D1 FBS UW-Madison. I assumed that relates to the whole tuition thing, but maybe I'm making a different argument.

We talk about this in the podcast, for sure. A number of D-II kids go out of state to get scholarships -- there are a number of Wisconsin kids on the rosters of NSIC schools. But yes, any D-III power needs a lot of D-II quality kids on the roster to compete at a national level.

I believe that Wisconsin does offer Reciprocity for In-State Tuition for some of the surrounding states.

It's not all of Wisconsin -- Minnesota students can get reciprocity at schools near the border like La Crosse and River Falls (maybe Stout and Eau Claire?) and Illinois students can do so at Whitewater and I think Iowa students at Platteville.

So Whitewater can get Wisconsin and Illinois (Chicago) football recruits at state school price?  and you dont think thats an advantage?  LOL

It does seem like your MO is just to deliberately misread what I say, but I'll say it again, in case you missed it.

One-fourth of NCAA Division III is state schools with that same tuition, so why is it only the WIAC?

It is absolutely an advantage. But in-state tuition is not the overarching reason why the WIAC field successful football teams.

IMO, in-State Public Tuition does have it's advantages.  Especially in a State (Wisconsin) that only has One FBS School, Zero FCS and D2 Schools, and two NAIA Schools that have football.

I believe that the WIAC gets their pick of the litter, over the other Private D3 schools in Wisconsin, because of their more affordable tuition.  Tradition of good football helps as well.

What other D3 Conferences are there that are State Schools with limited other opportunities to play football.

are you crazy?  what about those football powerhouse states of New Jersey and New York? Massachusetts?   lol

[Jonny Utah]

D3fanboy.  The state schools in MA have very cheap in state (and out of state) tuitions.  And in general they are bottom of the barrel in terms of d3 football prowess.  So those facts would logically infer that low in state tuition (which Umass has with some states reciprocate for some programs) isn't a factor in whether or not a school can have top ranked football programs (or is a minor factor).

Unless you are saying it isn't an advantage, then I can see your point)i