FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

seventiesraider · December 27, 2005, 06:06:52 PM

The poll on the front page got me to wondering what games we as OAC fans would want to see. I'm fully aware of the Wooster-Mount Union matchup potential, but are there other region or traditional rivilries that the breakup up of the old OAC have caused to be lost. Throw some out and we could vote on some here. I voted for the Linfield-Mount matchup, however I wish it had been this year or the year before. Right now it's about supper time and a Bridgewater/Mount Union matchup sounds good as long as I could cross enemy lines and get some chicken.

Ryan Tipps · December 27, 2005, 07:24:07 PM

Quote from: joelmama on December 27, 2005, 03:59:37 PM
Pat,

Do you have a place on this site that lists the teams with the winningest records all time in d3. I thought at one time Wittenberg was at or near the top and I was wondering what other tteams would be near there (i.e. St John's, MUC, Augie etc.)

Joel,
Not to step on Pat's toes and answer for him, but that information is on the NCAA's Web site. Here's the link to the pdf file of the Record's Book. There's some good stuff in there.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/football_records_book_d2_d3/2005_d2_d3_football_records.pdf

The information you want is on page 85 of the book. Wittenberg has the most overall wins, but not the best winning percentage. That honor belongs to St. Johns, which has been playing football for 17 years less than Witt has. (Witt's percentage is impressive nonetheless coming in at No. 4.)

Hope this helps.

seventiesraider · December 27, 2005, 09:52:53 PM

I would like to find those stats just for the thirty plus years that Division 3 has existed. I believe that Mount should have passed Widener to get into third place total victories this season.

Interestingly St John's claims they are the winningest program based on percentage while claiming Coach Gag's is the winningest coach based on total victories. If we let them be the winningest football program, then simple logic says Larry Kehres is the winningest coach in football history, while Gag's has won (and lost) many more games.

BTW Thanks for the link WCL

Pat Coleman · December 27, 2005, 09:53:12 PM

I would say one thing as to why we don't list that record or talk much about it -- we would prefer to do our own research and find out which are the winningest programs during the time they were Division III. Since most of the schools on the NCAA's list played football for six or more decades before Division III existed, we do not use that list.

D3 Poster · December 27, 2005, 10:01:53 PM

Although size of the school is one method to compare, tuition is the greater equalizer or more accurately, an item to overcome...

Most OAC school are in the Mount Union range. I assume most state schools like Rowan (?) are close to UWW.

UWW '04 tuition $4,279
MUC '05 tuition $19,600

seventiesraider · December 27, 2005, 11:34:54 PM

Records on that list are more correctly: "All time records of schools currently considered Division 3." Should we really consider such things as Mount Union's early 1900's losses to schools like Ohio State, Michigan and Notre Dame or victories over local athletic clubs. D3 records should be for the years since 1973, or at least with an asterick for former "College Division" participation.

jdean · December 28, 2005, 12:14:41 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2005, 09:53:12 PM
... we would prefer to do our own research and find out which are the winningest programs during the time they were Division III.

Many schools have moved from NAIA to NCAA D3 since 1973. Do you plan to have your research only include victories while a member of the NCAA?

Pat Coleman · December 28, 2005, 12:21:02 AM

Probably, yes. By percentage and by total wins.

Ryan Tipps · December 28, 2005, 12:26:24 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2005, 09:53:12 PM
I would say one thing as to why we don't list that record or talk much about it -- we would prefer to do our own research and find out which are the winningest programs during the time they were Division III. Since most of the schools on the NCAA's list played football for six or more decades before Division III existed, we do not use that list.

Pat,
Didn't you and I discuss this (or something very very similar) a while back?

Long-past records -- whether they go back to the 1800s or to the early 1970's birth of D3 -- have little bearing in the present when teams actually take the field. That's all there is to it. Most of the teams that tout having the most wins or best winning percentages are most largely using it as a recruiting tool. I think it's great for students and alumni to take pride in the winning traditions that some of these schools have, but the buck pretty much stops there.

The best, though, is when a school that historically hasn't been a great team can create their own modern winning traditions!

Pat Coleman · December 28, 2005, 01:25:54 AM

I know it was discussed with someone, so if you're willing to take the blame, by all means.

reality check · December 28, 2005, 12:52:18 PM

Pat

I saw on the notables page that there will be three D-III'ers in the Hula Bowl. I knew about Hostetler and Elliott but the Osh Kosh tight end was news to me. After reading his stats I was curious how he got the nod. It seems like he wasn't used much. Does he have an NFL body or something? Is he a possibility at the next level?

Also I read Elliott will be playing on the East squad with Hos. Is this correct? I am guessing if it is correct that the Hula Bowl people needed another QB in the East so they "threw the D-III kid over to that side". Just wondering.

Re: Who you'd like to see next year

With all due respect to Linfield, who would really want to see Linfield minus Elliott and Allen take on the Raiders next year? If you asked about this season, then yeah I would have loved to see the two teams play but next year is too little, too late. If you wanna pick a West team to play MUC next year, I would think Whitewater vs. MUC II would be the best choice.

jdean · December 28, 2005, 01:04:16 PM

Quote from: reality check on December 28, 2005, 12:52:18 PM

Re: Who you'd like to see next year

With all due respect to Linfield, who would really want to see Linfield minus Elliott and Allen take on the Raiders next year? If you asked about this season, then yeah I would have loved to see the two teams play but next year is too little, too late. If you wanna pick a West team to play MUC next year, I would think Whitewater vs. MUC II would be the best choice.

The rumors and speculation about D1 transfers started on the W board for Linfield soon after the playoffs. May be hot air but if they get one they might be back in the finals. If Mount makes it I'd like it to be a first time opponent--don't care who or what region.

Pat Coleman · December 28, 2005, 01:28:17 PM

I'm guessing the UW-O tight end can block like there's no tomorrow because yeah, they didn't throw to him much.

As for his size, 6-6, 255, according to the UW-O roster. We'll see what the Hula people measure him at. I believe the measurements they put on their rosters are usually pretty accurate.

reality check · December 29, 2005, 10:29:30 AM

Watching Sportscenter this morning they showed a teaser for the upcoming segment and there was a shot of Tony Dungy walking off the field for halftime and right next to him, stride for stride was Tom Arth. He looks like he fits in with all the other guys every time I see him. I just wish he got to suit up for the Colts.

formerd3db · December 29, 2005, 12:52:26 PM

beenhit2hard:
Regarding the NCAA limit for scholarships in football: I thought the limit for DI was 85 (with 30 preferred walk-ons), and 45 full-rides for DII (most DII schools split theirs in half, whatever the limit and/or what they offer). Did the NCAA change this recently?

If so, I may have missed that. I don't have the NCAA manual right at hand, so am not sure nor able to check at present. Thanks.