FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[HScoach]

See, you could do a MUC team strictly from the last 15 years and leave off a TON of really great players from years past.  Ken Edelman is the only person you even mentioned from pre-NC days.  I don't disagree with any of your RB's (how could I), but what about Russ Kring?  Jim Gresko?  What about some other guys from the 80's or earlier.  I know as a team, MUC is much better now than then, but are today's players just that superior that NO ONE from pre 93 gets on the MUC all time team?

JK,

If I'm going to go by guys I actually saw play I can't go any farther back than 1979 so that eliminates the really old guys.  One guy I did consider from the Pre-NC time period was Steve Harter at OL.  Russ Kring and Jim Gresko were both tough RB's, but not the playmaker that Moore, Kmic and Pugh are.   Though I understand that they didn't have the same kind of O-line the  younger guys have.

I'm sure if I had my media guide I could probably change a couple guys (and fill in the missing years) but that list was off the top of my head.

hscoach--do you have a center on your o-line?  I would have to nominate Tom Bauer (sp?) for that specific position--first player that I know of from MUC to be invited to the Hula Bowl.

I just picked O-lineman in general.   I did consider Big Tom though.

[JK]

That's a pretty great list "off the top of your head."  I can't argue with any of them for an "all-time" team.  It just seems strange that an "all-time" team would all be in the last 15 years.  But, I would suspect, knowing what I do about MUC football, that there wouldn't be many, if any, guys from pre- 80's that could crack the "all-time" list given the success of the last 25 years, especially the success of the last 15 years.

MUC had some really good to borderline great players in the 80's like Woolf, Kring, Gindlesberger, Heather, Hogya, Petro, etc.  But the really, really great talent at MUC has been in recent history.

[seventiesraider]

My sole addition from the pre-modern era would be Perry Bourne at DB. Maybe the level of competition wasn't as high, but he was great talent.   

Glad too see Beenhit2hard is still lurking here.

[JK]

My sole addition from the pre-modern era would be Perry Bourne at DB. Maybe the level of competition wasn't as high, but he was great talent.   

The question, though, you have to ask when doing the all-time thing, is: Was he better than: Chris Kern ’02, Mike Miller ’03, Ross Watson ’05, Sean Moore and Kris Bugara ‘98?

It's tough comparing guys across generations.  It's even tough comparing guys from the 70's- early 80's to today's athletes, especially at the D3 level.  When I first started going to MUC games in the mid- 80's, the game was different than when I played it in the mid- 90's.

For the guys I never saw play at Cap, I had to rely on this- were the stats that person put up enough to stand the "test of time?"  The two running backs from the 50's on my Cap all time team are still near the top in thier categories.  For all the FB that has been played at Cap from then until now (some of it bad, some REALLY bad, some good) they are still there.  That means, to me, they dominated their time.  Would they dominate today?  Maybe, but likely no (they'd be in their 80's  ).  But I think the level of domination they have from their time exceeds the level from more recent times.

Seventies, you've been around MUC FB for a while (no offense).  Only you can answer the question, considering the periods they guys played in- was Perry Bourne better than one of the guys hscoach has listed?

p.s.- I think your brother would have been the best person to have in this particular discussion

[HScoach]

That's a pretty great list "off the top of your head." .......

Since I don't waste valuable head space with hair, I have plenty of room for football stuff.

[seventiesraider]

Perry still holds all 3 MUC individual interception records:

Game... 6 by Perry Bourn vs. Franklin (IN) (1968) *OAC Record

Season... 10 by Bruce Ensminger (1950);  Perry Bourn (1968) *OAC Record

Career... 19 by Perry Bourn (1966-1969)


Gotta make him at least an honorable mention.

Perry played one year during my brother's time at Mount and three years during mine. I would have defered to him though as he saw more games during the late Wable years than I did. It's good that schools have Hall of Fames to recognize players based on the era they play in.

[JK]

It's good that schools have Hall of Fames to recognize players based on the era they play in.

I agree.  I have been thinking about contacting the Capital Sports information department to try to get pictures of the guys I have on my list, many of whom are in the Cap HOF.  Just for my personal use, to clean up my list and make it into a kind of keepsake.  The problem is, I don't know who the Cap SID is right now, as you at MUC stole our SID    From what I can tell, Cap as yet to name a replacement.  I also, prior to this year, could have contacted Coach Welsh or Coach Collins for help, but, as you know, both are also gone.  I'm now an outsider.  There's no one left at Cap from my time there. 

[reality check]

ONU All Time Team (IMHO)

2 Quarterbacks:
Shane Franzer (98-00): 16 career 200 yard passing games, career leader in total offense, also had over 100 career rushing yards, 27 passing TD season is best in ONU history
Ed Chessar (87-89): led team in total offense all 4 years, career leader in passing yardage and completions, 13 career 200 yard passing games, held most every career number after his 4 years at QB

3 Runng Backs:
Jamal Robertson (97-00): holds basically every ONU rushing record, 20 career 100 yard games, 5 AA 1st Team Awards
Eric Batt (80-82): 11 career 100 yard rushing games, 5th on ONU career rushing list, 2-time all-OAC 1st Team, 2-time AA HM
Zach Weber (01-04): 12 career 100 yard rushing games, led team in scoring 3 seasons, career leader in all-purpose yardage, 2nd on career rushing list, accomplished kick returner as well.

*Weber was such a dynamic player that he gets the last nod over Ben Snell (94-97) and Arnie Boigner (89-92).  Boigner had nearly identical numbers to Batt but Batt played in the early 80's and was on less talented teams with help on his offensive line.  Boigner and Snell were beasts though so it was hard to leave them off.

4 Wide Receivers:
Steve Vagedes (97-99): OAC career leader in TD catches at 43, 4th all-time in OAC in yards receiving, 18 career 100 yard games
LaVant King (92-95): 3-time AA, 27 career TD catches (7 more in returns), 9 career 100 yard games
Greg Evilsizor (01-04): ONU career receptions leader, 2nd in career yardage, 7 career 100 yard games
Stacey Hairston (85-88): Based on just numbers, Jace Metzner (99, 01-03) gets the nod (4th in career receptions, 5th in yardage) but Hairston was so important to the team and program, turning his talent into a pro career and leading the Bears in scoring 2 seasons while playing both DB and WR, earning All-OAC his senior year at WR.

6 Offensive Linemen:
Chris Wilson (75-78): 2-time 1st Team All-OAC'er '77,'78
Andy Roecker (94-97): 2nd Team AA (also academic AA) in '96 and '97
Kory Allen (97-99): 1st Team AA in '99, anchored the ONU line in late 90's
Jerry English (61-64) : First ever ONU All-American ('64 HM)
Matt Tebbe (93-96): If memory serves me right, he started all 40 games of his collegiate career
Mike Cramer (79-81): 2-time 1st Team All-OAC'er '80,'81

1 Tight End:
Marcus Tekancic (94-97): Little bro of standout QB Scott and 1st Team All-OAC TE in 1997, led team in receptions, 7th in career receptions at ONU, 13th in career receiving yardage at ONU.

1 Kicker:
JR Cipra (97-00): 2-time 1st Team All-OAC, 1st and 2nd Team All-American, holds nearly every kicking record at ONU including career FG's made, PAT's, longest FG (47)

5 Defensive Linemen:
Jason Trusnik (02-06): DIII Player of the Year in 2004, all-time OAC leader in sacks, TFL and ranks among NCAA career leaders in both categories
Mark Evans (94-97): 29 career sacks ranks second at ONU, 4th in ONU career TFL, 1st Team All-OAC and 1st Team All-American
Scott Sweat (97-00): 4th in career sacks, 2nd in TFL, 1st Team All-OAC
Tom Seif (79-82): 2-time All-OAC DE from early 80's, pre-sack days

4 Line Backers:
Pete Schram (87-89): career and single-season tackle leader w/ 399 and 142 from '87-'90
Jerry Adams (93-96): 4th in career tackles, 2-time All-OAC and AFCA All-American in '96
Lenny Trusnik (04-07): 5th in career tackles, 2-time All-OAC (OAC LB of the Year in '07), HM All-American
Brad Lohr (99-02): 2nd in career tackles, most tackles in a game (23), 1st Team All-OAC, led team in tackles for 2 seasons in '99 and '00

5 Defensive Backs:
Wes Hostetler (02-05): 3rd in career INT's w/ 13, only DB in ONU top ten for career tackles, incredible kick return statistics, represented ONU in Hula Bowl and Aztec Bowl, 2-time 1st Team OAC and 1st Team All-American as well as Academic AA
Rusty Midlam (02-05): career INT leader w/ 22 (second all-time in OAC), most INT return yardage for a game, single season and career, 1st Team All-OAC and 3rd Team All-American
Jack Diamond (78-79): 2nd in career INT's w/ 14, 1st Team All-OAC in '79
Nate Riles (96-98): 1st Team All-OAC, represented ONU at Aztec Bowl, solid KR as well as shut down DB, went on to play professionally
Scott Reifschneider (89-92): 2-time all OAC in '91 and '92, HM All-American in '92

1 Punter:
Steve Vagedes (97-99): 5 1st Team AA credits, 2 2nd team AA credits, 1999 avg. of 46.2 (NCAA III record). I will always rememeber him punting versus CAP out his own endzone for a TB on a couple bounces; 88 yards for an OAC record.


HC: Tom Kaczkowski. Despite the less than perfect end to his ONU coaching tenure, he built this program into what it is today and accumulated 93 wins (most in school history) and 2 NCAA playoff berths.

OC: Along with Kaz, Rick Ponx guided ONU's offense to new heights in productivity utilizing the Northern Gun offense while producing talents like Steve Vagedes, Shane Franzer, Jeff Soliday, Zach Weber and Jamal Robertson. 

DC: I guess I'll go with Michael Meyer who coached at ONU from 1990-2001 and served most of that time as DC.  His tenure is the longest of any DC as far as I know and he took his experience to Hiram College as HC following his 2001 campaign.  A good coach and a great man.

Tough calls, although I know it was easier than sifting through the tons of talent that has passed through MUC.  I had fun looking some of this info up.  Of course I didn't see all these guys play but I do think some deserve mention even if they played in the dark days of ONU football.  Interested if any of the posters played against some of my picks whether or not they would agree.

[reality check]

JK

Good list for CAP.  You mentioned Doyle's Rimington Award but failed to credit him for spearing a guy dressed up as Tony the Tiger in the Capital cafeteria to win a bet for a couple cans of dip.  At least that's how the legend goes as it was told to me.  That alone cements him in the CAP history books for me.


One thing I realized when compiling my ONU list is that ONU has had some very special kick returners over the years.  Between LaVant King, Wes Hostetler, Nate Riles and Stacey Hairston, ONU has been lucky in the talent pool.  It was also difficult picking a second QB.  Chessar compiled a lot over his four years and had some ugly stats (career INT numbers for example) but noone else at ONU has ever really put a massive career together.  Even Franzer only had 2 and a half seasons at QB.  Soliday was a great talent but a torn achilles ruined one of his seasons.  Zarlinga piled up some stats but was dethroned by Franzer halfway through his senior season, Quirk was a good athlete but not a great quarterback; just a tough, cocky SOB.  Scott Tekancic had a solid career but not mind-blowing.  I am honestly surprised that ONU has never had a QB make first team All-OAC but with MUC and guys like Arth, Pentello, Larlham, D'Orazio and Vrable, I guess it makes some sense.

[reality check]

Jamal Robertson scores two TD's in his CFL debut to help Toronto to a season-opening victory today 23-16.  His first score came on a 52 yard catch and run in which he broke three separate tackles on his way to the end zone.  His second TD came in the third quarter from 4 yards out.  He finished the day as the leading Argo receiver (3 catches for 66 yards) and the leading rusher (9 carries for 39 yards).  What a great way for Jamal to start off his Argos and CFL career. 

A shot of Jamal's second score...

[JK]

Reality,

Good list to you as well.  When I saw that you were going to do this for ONU, I immediately thought of a few guys, several of which you mentioned.  It goes without saying that Jamal would be on your list, but the other two RB's I thought of were Snell and Boigner.  That's part of the fun of it for me, the surprises of finding someone who probably deserves it more than the guys who immediately come to mind.

You're right about the kick returners.  That is a pretty impressive list.  LaVant King tore us up one year from his WR position as well.

Mark Evans, from my recollection, definitely deserves to be on the team.  Jerry Adams was a great LB from my time in the OAC who basically gets forgotten about because of London Fletcher and Jason Hall.

It is surprising that none of the QB's really stand out.  Several do in my mind, but maybe that's just because they absolutely shredded us almost every year.

I had fun putting my list together too.  Reference Doyle: I tried to limit my comments to on field accomplishments    But, from what I know of Doyle, the incident you mention is probably more dear to him than his football awards...

[HScoach]

RC and JK, 

Thanks for starting this topic.  Going thru the lists of opposing players was a wonderful trip down memory lane for me too. 

......  I am honestly surprised that ONU has never had a QB make first team All-OAC but with MUC and guys like Arth, Pentello, Larlham, D'Orazio and Vrable, I guess it makes some sense.

That's surprising too.  ONU has been an awfully good program for quite a while without a true stud at QB other than Franzer.  Which is a testiment of the overall quality of the rest of the guys.

After seeing Robertson, Vagedes and Franzer play, I'm still surprised that they never got past Mount.  Those 3 guys were truly amazing talents.  And I would have loved to see them wear purple & white instead of black & orange

[section13raiderfan]

Didnt Dan Pugh play Canadian ball for a year or two also? Anybody know for whom and how he did?

[reality check]

I know he signed with Montreal in 2004 but I'm not sure he ever played up there.

The Alouettes have an all-time roster and his name does not appear so I would guess he was a training camp casualty.

[Knightstalker]

Could your OAC'ers possibly put the years played on your all time teams.  This would give us non Ohitians on the players and the history of the conference teams.  Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow.