Future of Division III

[Gregory Sager]

Something to keep in mind with regards to the Great Lakes area schools is the Great Lakes Colleges Association.

Its comprised of.......
Albion College
Antioch College
Denison University
DePauw University
Earlham College
Hope College
Kalamazoo College
Kenyon College
Oberlin College
Ohio Wesleyan University
Wabash College
The College of Wooster

These colleges make up good chunks of the MIAA and NCAC.  Philosophically I believe they would all move together.  Its not inconceivable that a split could occur within these conferences along the lines of affiliation with this association.

Antioch has no (school-sponsored) intercollegiate sports.

A shame, too, as I would greatly enjoy cheering for the Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch College.

[David Collinge]

Antioch has no (school-sponsored) intercollegiate sports.

A shame, too, as I would greatly enjoy cheering for the Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch College.

Yeah; when they hit a shot from behind the arc, they get five.
Three, sire!
Three!

[joehakes]

David,

The championships ratio is only one component here.  It is a valid concern as to how the division structures itself, but the widening gaps in philosophies is becoming more apparent all the time.  That, in the end, is what will really drive this thing.

[smedindy]

If you've been following the news, a Holy Hand Grenade as ripped apart Antioch's financials.

[joehakes]

If you can get a hold of the December 17 NCAA News (the last hard copy issue to be printed by the way) the Centerpiece section has a good summary of the association-wide nature of the proposed split.

Merry Christmas to all!

[johnnie_esq]

If you can get a hold of the December 17 NCAA News (the last hard copy issue to be printed by the way) the Centerpiece section has a good summary of the association-wide nature of the proposed split.

Merry Christmas to all!

The Centerpiece section is online here.

A very nice summary piece as to what is being floated around right now.  Nothing groundbreaking or with new news, but it basically puts on the table succinctly as to what will be discussed.  If you are looking to get up to speed quickly, this is a nice read.

Yeah; when they hit a shot from behind the arc, they get five.
Three, sire!
Three!

+1k for the good insert there.  Great line!

[cush]

I thought that attachment b, philosophical basis for new membership is the key. Just goes back to my rational that school's like rhodes, south, etc that are in the scac are gonna want to join with the kenyon's of the world, ie hook up with the ncac  and such in a new divison since their main selling point is academics to attract students. These school's like to distinguish their academic standing and a separation does that + they are awful expensive, so that type of branding  doesn't hurt. Yet, geography is a problem for scac school's.  Also, attachement D, Q #6  suggest that d3 is gonna add up to 60 members, i'll assume from NAIA, which would bring it up to 480 by 2020 and that probably leaves the naia at what 200 or so? Really, the naia should fold itself into the ncaa organization...in any event i can see the need for a new division.

[Ralph Turner]

We must be overloading the server, because I am unable to review the "Centerpiece" article.

[johnnie_esq]

We must be overloading the server, because I am unable to review the "Centerpiece" article.

Here is a new link to it. They seem to have updated the site throughout the day.

[Gregory Sager]

Also, attachement D, Q #6  suggest that d3 is gonna add up to 60 members, i'll assume from NAIA, which would bring it up to 480 by 2020 and that probably leaves the naia at what 200 or so? Really, the naia should fold itself into the ncaa organization

The problem is that the NAIA fills a necessary niche for schools that do not wish to, or are unable to, field teams in a sufficient number of sports to qualify for D2 or D3 membership.

[Knightstalker]

Also, attachement D, Q #6  suggest that d3 is gonna add up to 60 members, i'll assume from NAIA, which would bring it up to 480 by 2020 and that probably leaves the naia at what 200 or so? Really, the naia should fold itself into the ncaa organization

The problem is that the NAIA fills a necessary niche for schools that do not wish to, or are unable to, field teams in a sufficient number of sports to qualify for D2 or D3 membership.

The NAIA is also more lenient in how aid is awarded and will allow athletes to hold jobs while on scholarship.  When Paul Smiths was going from a JC to 4 year school, they explored both and the reason Greg cited above and the scholarship/financial aid are why they went NAIA.

[johnnie_esq]

Interesting blurb in tomorrow's Minneapolis StarTribune:

Growing Division III might seek Division IV

There are different philosophies and different program sizes," [MIAC Commissioner Dan] McKane said. "There is a difference of opinion on rules like redshirting. As a conference, the MIAC presidents and athletic directors are happy with Division III as it is."

Keep in mind that the MIAC is slated to be a D-IV prospective conference.

[smedindy]

So could D-3 morph into something with limited scholarships and redshirting, and D-4 be what D-3 is now??

[johnnie_esq]

So could D-3 morph into something with limited scholarships and redshirting, and D-4 be what D-3 is now??

In theory, I suppose. 

But perhaps D-2 should further drop its scholarship limits and encourage some of the D-3s to move there-- and there could stay only 3 divisions.  However, I fear that D-2 won't do that at all, as there was massive uproar the last time that was brought up there.

[Ralph Turner]

+1 Johnnie!

Another great find, to go with your last one, the MIAC letter that you posted earlier this year (that I cannot seem to find, that stated that the MIAC was happy with the way things were.)

I still come back to the analogy of the party...

What if the NCAC gave a party and nobody, or not all of the right people, came?

The MIAC is a very influential conference!