Future of Division III

[BaseballFan]

I have moved mans007 question to this board.  Thanks.

The NCAA needs to do something about private schools in athletics.  I may be the first to bring light to this problem, but it is becoming very large.  Public institutions as we all know can only give "need based" financial money to all students because they are using tax payers money.  Private schools can give money to whomever they see fit.  6 out of the 8 teams in the d3 world series are private institutions. So when you talk about d3 athletes being pure student athletes that is not accurate.  For example, a private institution can give a minorty student a full ride just for being a minority. A public school does not have the same luxury. Have you ever heard of the "blonde hair blue eyed scholarship"?  This is a growing problem that needs attention. D3 athletics is becoming a private school division.

Havent looked at a lot of private schools rosters, but not a lot of minorities in Midwest private schools baseball rosters.

[smedindy]

Wow, I don't know how to rebut that argument.

Well, actually I do.

Most private school 'scholarships' are actually part of their aid package they would have received anyway. The school has received money from donors in the endowment. Yes, there are criteria, but financial aid packages the aid to satisfy the donors and also give the students all of the aid they are entitled to.

That minority 'full ride' is usually based on several factors. Full ride scholarships aren't tossed around lightly by anyone.

Private schools have more latitude than public schools, but on the whole public schools cost a heck of a lot less. I am sure that it would cost you less to attend Worcester State than Amherst, even with the aid Amherst can give you.

Yes, D-3 has a lot of private schools. D-2 has a lot of public schools. D-1 has a mixture.

[Ralph Turner]

Wheaton IL to cut five programs.

Men's Golf.  (Leaves 7 Men's Teams in the CCIW -- CCIW Men's Golf AQ is intact.)
Women's Golf. (Leaves 6 Women's Teams in the CCIW --Women's Golf AQ is in jeopardy.)
Men's Tennis.  (Leaves 5 CCIW teams playing Men's Tennis)
Men's Indoor Track.
Women's Water Polo. (An independent and one of 18 D-III's among the 59 NCAA schools that sponsor Women's Water Polo.)

EDIT: Per Mr Ypsi, both Golf teams and Men's Tennis has been re-instated.
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2010/3/5/GEN_reinstate.aspx?path=gen


Thanks to Mr Ypsi for the update.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wheaton IL to cut five programs.

Men's Golf.  (Leaves 7 Men's Teams in the CCIW -- CCIW Men's Golf AQ is intact.)
Women's Golf. (Leaves 6 Women's Teams in the CCIW --Women's Golf AQ is in jeopardy.)
Men's Tennis.  (Leaves 5 CCIW teams playing Men's Tennis)
Men's Indoor Track.
Women's Water Polo. (An independent and one of 18 D-III's among the 59 NCAA schools that sponsor Women's Water Polo.)

Would be a total shame for women's golf.  Wheaton ALMOST caught IWU this year (7 strokes); without them IWU would have won by 56 strokes!

Fortunately, I think IWU is good enough to win a Pool B or C spot, but a shame nonetheless.

[Gregory Sager]

Women's Golf. (Leaves 6 Women's Teams in the CCIW --Women's Golf AQ is in jeopardy.)

No, there's seven women's golf teams left in the CCIW. Wheaton will be the only school not to field a women's golf team.

[Ralph Turner]

Women's Golf. (Leaves 6 Women's Teams in the CCIW --Women's Golf AQ is in jeopardy.)

No, there's seven women's golf teams left in the CCIW. Wheaton will be the only school not to field a women's golf team.

Thanks for the response, GS.  This is the link to the CCIW website where I got the information.  Has North Park added Women's Golf for 2010-11?

http://www.cciw.org/fall_golf_w/index.php

[Gregory Sager]

Women's Golf. (Leaves 6 Women's Teams in the CCIW --Women's Golf AQ is in jeopardy.)

No, there's seven women's golf teams left in the CCIW. Wheaton will be the only school not to field a women's golf team.

Thanks for the response, GS.  This is the link to the CCIW website where I got the information.  Has North Park added Women's Golf for 2010-11?

http://www.cciw.org/fall_golf_w/index.php

North Park never dropped it. The Vikings simply didn't have enough golfers at last fall's CCIW meet to qualify for the final team leaderboard.

[Mr. Ypsi]

NPU has always fielded a women's golf team.  Unfortunately they golf about like me!

IWU has won 8 years in a row.  The lack of Wheaton is a big blow to the conference, since they came within 7 strokes of derailing the Titans this last fall.  Without Wheatoin, the Titans would have won by FIFTY SIX strokes!

[Gregory Sager]

NPU has always fielded a women's golf team.  Unfortunately they golf about like me!

Take it down a notch, Chuck. There's nothing wrong with NPU's lady golfers. For an unrecruited bunch, they golf just fine. There simply weren't enough of them last year to qualify for the final team leaderboard.

North Park's golf teams are an afterthought. They're coached by two of the men's basketball coaches -- head coach Paul Brenegan coaches the men's golf team, assistant coach Chris Edquist coaches the women's golf team -- and they obviously devote most of their time and energy to the hardwood rather than the links. There's no real recruitment for golf, to the best of my knowledge; they simply contact any applicant to NPU who indicates an interest in the sport on their application, and then open it up to anyone else on campus who wants to participate. That means that the Vikings will typically bring up the rear in the conference golf standings, and that on occasion -- it happened four straight years at the beginning of the '00s as well -- the women's team won't field enough golfers for the team to qualify at the conference meet. No big deal. The golf teams are still fully-funded varsity sports. It's not as though there's a tremendous amount of prestige attached to golf in the CCIW, where courses frequently have snow on them into April.

To the best of my knowledge, Wheaton didn't really devote much time or effort to recruiting for golf, either, which is likely a big reason why that school has done away with the men's and women's golf teams. The reason why Wheaton has done better at the sport than has NPU is simple: Wheaton kids are a lot more likely to come from wealthy families. I think we all know what economic bracket produces the most golfers in terms of the sport's youth demographic.

IWU has won 8 years in a row.  The lack of Wheaton is a big blow to the conference, since they came within 7 strokes of derailing the Titans this last fall.  Without Wheatoin, the Titans would have won by FIFTY SIX strokes!

You gonna spam every board with that announcement, Chuck? I've seen it in more places than I have Pat's invitation to join the tournament pool.

[smedindy]

Oooh...a inter-CCIW fight!

[hickory_cornhusker]

Oooh...a inter-CCIW fight!

I think it's supposed to be intra-CCIW.

[sac]

NPU has always fielded a women's golf team.  Unfortunately they golf about like me!

Take it down a notch, Chuck. There's nothing wrong with NPU's lady golfers. For an unrecruited bunch, they golf just fine. There simply weren't enough of them last year to qualify for the final team leaderboard.

North Park's golf teams are an afterthought. They're coached by two of the men's basketball coaches -- head coach Paul Brenegan coaches the men's golf team, assistant coach Chris Edquist coaches the women's golf team -- and they obviously devote most of their time and energy to the hardwood rather than the links. There's no real recruitment for golf, to the best of my knowledge; they simply contact any applicant to NPU who indicates an interest in the sport on their application, and then open it up to anyone else on campus who wants to participate. That means that the Vikings will typically bring up the rear in the conference golf standings, and that on occasion -- it happened four straight years at the beginning of the '00s as well -- the women's team won't field enough golfers for the team to qualify at the conference meet. No big deal. The golf teams are still fully-funded varsity sports. It's not as though there's a tremendous amount of prestige attached to golf in the CCIW, where courses frequently have snow on them into April.

To the best of my knowledge, Wheaton didn't really devote much time or effort to recruiting for golf, either, which is likely a big reason why that school has done away with the men's and women's golf teams. The reason why Wheaton has done better at the sport than has NPU is simple: Wheaton kids are a lot more likely to come from wealthy families. I think we all know what economic bracket produces the most golfers in terms of the sport's youth demographic.

IWU has won 8 years in a row.  The lack of Wheaton is a big blow to the conference, since they came within 7 strokes of derailing the Titans this last fall.  Without Wheatoin, the Titans would have won by FIFTY SIX strokes!

You gonna spam every board with that announcement, Chuck? I've seen it in more places than I have Pat's invitation to join the tournament pool.

Depending on the arrangement with whatever course a school plays and practices at, it can also be surprisingly expensive on a per-athlete  basis.   Factor in a lot of the spring tournaments are often 2 day events which require an overnight stay and a long drive.

I don't know about where the CCIW plays, but the MIAA plays on mostly country clubs, some of them very nice and expensive.

The way Greg describes NPU recruiting is the way the great majority of D3 programs approach golf I would guess.

[David Collinge]

And I thought that Wheaton College had more money than God, or at least a joint checking account.

On the other side of this coin, the College of Wooster has recently announced a $30 million expansion to the existing Armington Physical Education Center to create a 123,000 sq. ft. Student Recreation Center, complete with an indoor track, set to open in just under two years.

And we're adding women's golf next year, bringing the College to 23 varsity sports.

[Mr. Ypsi]

A follow-up on Wheaton dropping sports - 3 of the teams have now been given a reprieve (both golf teams plus men's tennis).  Don't know whether they simply reconsidered or whether a wealthy alum came through with some bucks.

[Gregory Sager]

A follow-up on Wheaton dropping sports - 3 of the teams have now been given a reprieve (both golf teams plus men's tennis).  Don't know whether they simply reconsidered or whether a wealthy alum came through with some bucks.

I'm guessing the latter. Nothing gets a wealthy alumnus's attention quicker than his alma mater dropping a sport, particularly if it's a sport that the alumnus (or alumna -- I don't wanna be sexist and assume anything) once played at the school.