Future of Division III

[Gray Fox]

I always have had that thought in the back of my mind.  I wonder if TV will have an effect on any outcome.

[fantastic50]

GLIAC scheduling change reflects push for equity

Here is an interesting topic for off-season debate, especially since we have a various conferences scheduling games in different methods.

I once saw a high school conference play some evening basketball doubleheaders with the boys' games first, for the same reason.  Instead of the girls having a decent crowd for the second half of their game (due to fans arriving for the boys' game), they played in a nearly empty gym, as very few fans stuck around for the girls' game.

[Ralph Turner]

In the past decade, back when Hardin-Simmons Cowgirls were at national strength and drawing 1500-2000 fans per game, the fans would exit after the Cowgirls played and go home, instead of staying for the men's basketball game.

[ADL70]

For a number of years the UAA has had women's games Fri 6pm, men 8pm  And Sunday men at noon, women 2pm.

[Just Bill]

The WIAC flips the order of the games every season (or maybe every other season).

[BUBeaverFan]

It looks like some teams in the HCAC are moving toward Saturday doubleheaders and the occasional Wednesday night double header based on travel distance.  Bluffton has 10 of its 18 conference games as double headers.  Trend?

[Just Bill]

If this is the first time the HCAC has had doubleheaders then they are the last to jump on board.  Nearly every other D-III conference (especially in the Midwest) has had doubleheaders for some time.

[BUBeaverFan]

If this is the first time the HCAC has had doubleheaders then they are the last to jump on board.  Nearly every other D-III conference (especially in the Midwest) has had doubleheaders for some time.

Not the first time, it just seems to be becoming more the rule than the exception.

[Gregory Sager]

The CCIW didn't mandate women/men doubleheaders for league games until last season -- and even then it was for Saturdays only. The women still play on Tuesdays, the men on Wednesdays.

AFAIK, the only CCIW school that attempted a men-play-first doubleheader on a Saturday last season was Wheaton. On February 6 Wheaton hosted a doubleheader against North Park. The 5 pm opener between the Wheaton and NPU men drew 1,632 fans. The 7:30 pm nightcap between the Wheaton and NPU women drew 311 fans.

[David Collinge]

I don't believe that the OAC ever plays doubleheaders.  The general practice, which may indeed be the rule, is that when Team A's men are playing at Team B, the B-women are at A, and the tip times are the same.  (That is, e.g., when Muskingum's men play at Wilmington, Wilma's women are at Musky.)

Doubleheaders in the NCAC do take place from time to time (usually involving Earlham, which likes to have their men's and women's teams travel together), but they are infrequent and often involve visiting teams from two different schools.  When they do take place, I've never noticed a trend of which gender plays first.

[Wydown Blvd.]

I gave this topic a days wait before commenting before I went off on this topic. If you pay attention to how I have been following d3, I primarily am a fan of the women in the UAA and NESCAC for the most part and secondarily follow the men's game in the UAA and NESCAC as well.

I am completely and utterly dismayed at any conferences approach to the double header. The UAA has done it correctly. For a night game, put the womens first so that they dont feel like complete trash when all of the fans leave after the mens game and they have no fans for their game. The most amazing thing that I have witnessed in the UAA is the home court advantage on Friday nights for the women when all of the fans come early for the mens game during the "4th quarter" or last 10 minutes of the game. I know the NESCAC was switching the mens to the first game and the womens to second, and that is a huge mistake that from what I have heard was not discussed amongst the coaches and definitely not asked about from the players. For day games in the UAA, the fan migration to the parking lot was not usually as obvious because the "hardcore" fans were there to support both teams anyway.

The conferences (and/or NCAA if it is a major equal opportunity issue) should ask the players before making such a big mistake with a shift towards men-first double headers for night games.

(Sidenote, I know that out of the schools with both mens and womens programs, there exceptions to the rule where a women's draws more than the men, but that is a minority.)

[old ends]

New NCAA page for DIV III
click here: http://www.ncaa.org/divisionIII

enjoy

[John Gleich]

GLIAC scheduling change reflects push for equity

Here is an interesting topic for off-season debate, especially since we have a various conferences scheduling games in different methods.

I once saw a high school conference play some evening basketball doubleheaders with the boys' games first, for the same reason.  Instead of the girls having a decent crowd for the second half of their game (due to fans arriving for the boys' game), they played in a nearly empty gym, as very few fans stuck around for the girls' game.

Interesting... I only had one (redshirt) season at a GLIAC school and then played in the WIAC for 4 more... I never had an opportunity to play at MTU before leaving but the routine was set... we changed formats between my second and third years at Point.

What I can say is that, at the very least, swapping games first and second can really screw with your routine, especially for away games.  We played second my third year and first my second year... it makes you change up the routine from year to year.  I don't have any stats on how the away team has done in each situation... but when you have to accommodate the the opposite gender's teams it can make for some... interesting situations.

I'm not going to make excuses and say that it cost us games (hard to back that up when the facts don't necessarily back it up.... of the 8 combined games we lost my junior and senior year, 6 were on the road, but only two of those were double-headers, with us playing second, the other 4 were mid-week games).

Stevens Point has a very unique situation as well with Quandt being available for the men and Berg available for the women while the other game is going on... I know of no other university in the country with this situation, though they may have an auxiliary gym (not that any were every utilized for getting loose or anything like that for the participants of the second game while I was there).

SP has another unique feature of their setup... they charge admission separately for each game whereas all of the other schools playing in the same gym have one ticket for both games (not sure if the prices are raised for doubleheaders or if there's a buy-two-get-a-discount at Point).

[David Collinge]

Stevens Point has a very unique situation as well with Quandt being available for the men and Berg available for the women while the other game is going on... I know of no other university in the country with this situation, though they may have an auxiliary gym (not that any were every utilized for getting loose or anything like that for the participants of the second game while I was there).

SP has another unique feature of their setup... they charge admission separately for each game whereas all of the other schools playing in the same gym have one ticket for both games (not sure if the prices are raised for doubleheaders or if there's a buy-two-get-a-discount at Point).

Two top-of-my-head counterexamples, just for the sake of posting something.
1) It's just an auxiliary floor, but Denison has a full-sized basketball gym in the same building as Livingston Gym, and I have seen the Big Red men warming up there while the women were playing.
2) Wittenberg has charged admission for women, then cleared the gym and charged for the men (with an intervening, and free, JV men's game) on at least one occasion (worth noting that the opponent for both genders was Wooster, making it not really your run-of-the-mill Saturday for Wittenberg). 

[Gregory Sager]

Stevens Point has a very unique situation as well with Quandt being available for the men and Berg available for the women while the other game is going on... I know of no other university in the country with this situation, though they may have an auxiliary gym (not that any were every utilized for getting loose or anything like that for the participants of the second game while I was there).

SP has another unique feature of their setup... they charge admission separately for each game whereas all of the other schools playing in the same gym have one ticket for both games (not sure if the prices are raised for doubleheaders or if there's a buy-two-get-a-discount at Point).

Two top-of-my-head counterexamples, just for the sake of posting something.
1) It's just an auxiliary floor, but Denison has a full-sized basketball gym in the same building as Livingston Gym, and I have seen the Big Red men warming up there while the women were playing.
2) Wittenberg has charged admission for women, then cleared the gym and charged for the men (with an intervening, and free, JV men's game) on at least one occasion (worth noting that the opponent for both genders was Wooster, making it not really your run-of-the-mill Saturday for Wittenberg). 

North Park did the same thing last year on a Saturday in which NPU hosted a women's game directly followed by a men's game. I would guess that UWSP actually has plenty of company when it comes to the two-games, two-admissions policy.