Future of Division III

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

D3 really can't be complaining about this.  Once the big football schools get their act together and leave the NCAA completely, the revenue will dry up and d3 will be left having to pay for their own post-season, something a lot of schools just won't do.

We've got it good right now.

[108 Stitches]

Hoops get your factst straight. The NCAA gets ALL of it's money from the basketball playoff's and they have signed a 10 year contract. ZERO (or nearly $0) comes in from football. This is all conference and school money. This is why none of the schools support a playoff structure that will impact the bowl money. (which is a completely different discussion)

The NCAA funds the DIII playoff's and frankly I don't know how much of this comes from the basketball money. Schools pay fees to the NCAA and I am not sure how much of this goes toward these costs vs the administrative costs. Someone here is probably much more knowledgeable about this than I am and can probably shed some light on it.

[hickory_cornhusker]

Hoops get your factst straight. The NCAA gets ALL of it's money from the basketball playoff's and they have signed a 10 year contract. ZERO (or nearly $0) comes in from football. This is all conference and school money. This is why none of the schools support a playoff structure that will impact the bowl money. (which is a completely different discussion)

The NCAA funds the DIII playoff's and frankly I don't know how much of this comes from the basketball money. Schools pay fees to the NCAA and I am not sure how much of this goes toward these costs vs the administrative costs. Someone here is probably much more knowledgeable about this than I am and can probably shed some light on it.

How long will it be until those football schools start questioning why their basketball teams are paying for the rest of the NCAA schools? The top men's basketball teams are generally BCS football playing schools. There hasn't been a non-BCS school that has won the men's basketball national championship since UNLV in 1990. Those BCS schools are what drive the March Madness dollars. Why split them with the rest of the NCAA? They take evrything in football, why not men's basketball as well. If the NCAA kicks out the rest of their sports just run your own tourney for themselves and no one else.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hoops get your factst straight. The NCAA gets ALL of it's money from the basketball playoff's and they have signed a 10 year contract. ZERO (or nearly $0) comes in from football. This is all conference and school money. This is why none of the schools support a playoff structure that will impact the bowl money. (which is a completely different discussion)

I know this, but football is driving the revenue machine.  Pretty soon, they'll figure out which 64 teams are in and separate from the NCAA.  They'll have their own football playoff and a convenient 64 team basketball tournament.  They'll draw all the revenue away from the NCAA, which might be able to survive on the remaining schools, but certainly not to the level where they'll be willing to shell out for championships in sports (and divisions) that don't turn a profit.

This is the way things have been going for a while.  It's why UCONN ramped up its football program and why Villanova is working hard to get it's program into the FBS.  Schools with basketball and not football are going to be left out - even some with football will be left out.

It's already beginning.  With the Big-10, PAC-12, SEC, and ACC there's only twelve spots left (ten if you count the inevitable Texas and ND inclusions).

D3 sports will face a real eye opener when their cash cow is gone.  We need to be grateful for what we've got.

[smedindy]

I cannot see them killing the current NCAA tourney. The reason it's compelling is the mid-major vs. big guy in the first round and the stories that carry through. It's not Auburn vs. UConn in the first round of the 'huge 64'.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I cannot see them killing the current NCAA tourney. The reason it's compelling is the mid-major vs. big guy in the first round and the stories that carry through. It's not Auburn vs. UConn in the first round of the 'huge 64'.

They'll still get the same money and now it will go directly to the schools and not to the NCAA.  Purely a financial decision.  This is not a sentimental group.

People can still make out pools and they'll still watch the games.  I agree that it won't be as special, but it will still make money - that's why they're doing it.

But truly football is running the show.  Even a school like Kentucky, with terrible football and incredible basketball is making way more from football.  The schools will do what's best for football and basketball will come along for the ($1billion) ride.

[108 Stitches]

Football will continue to drive things at the conference level and the growth of these associations. (Pac-xx, etc) This is driven by TV money, and in season revenue of course will flow back to the conferences and institutions It is not going to change how the NCAA runs the basketball tournament. It is already contracted for many, many years and runs quite well. This will not change for quite some time.

[smedindy]

I cannot see them killing the current NCAA tourney. The reason it's compelling is the mid-major vs. big guy in the first round and the stories that carry through. It's not Auburn vs. UConn in the first round of the 'huge 64'.

They'll still get the same money and now it will go directly to the schools and not to the NCAA.  Purely a financial decision.  This is not a sentimental group.

People can still make out pools and they'll still watch the games.  I agree that it won't be as special, but it will still make money - that's why they're doing it.

But truly football is running the show.  Even a school like Kentucky, with terrible football and incredible basketball is making way more from football.  The schools will do what's best for football and basketball will come along for the ($1billion) ride.

I disagree. The networks are contracted with the NCAA, not the schools. The networks won't touch the tourney without the NCAA sanctioning.

Also, they must realize that 15 of the Top 50 schools as ranked by RPI, Sagarin and Pomeroy are not of the Power conferences.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I cannot see them killing the current NCAA tourney. The reason it's compelling is the mid-major vs. big guy in the first round and the stories that carry through. It's not Auburn vs. UConn in the first round of the 'huge 64'.

They'll still get the same money and now it will go directly to the schools and not to the NCAA.  Purely a financial decision.  This is not a sentimental group.

People can still make out pools and they'll still watch the games.  I agree that it won't be as special, but it will still make money - that's why they're doing it.

But truly football is running the show.  Even a school like Kentucky, with terrible football and incredible basketball is making way more from football.  The schools will do what's best for football and basketball will come along for the ($1billion) ride.

I disagree. The networks are contracted with the NCAA, not the schools. The networks won't touch the tourney without the NCAA sanctioning.

Also, they must realize that 15 of the Top 50 schools as ranked by RPI, Sagarin and Pomeroy are not of the Power conferences.

But how fast will that change once the big 64 separate.  The recruits those mid-major schools are getting will dry up.  And, if the big 64 decide to keep everything separate, we'll never be able to see them compared on the floor.

When they leave the NCAA, they'll set up their own governing body- with all the legitimacy (or lack thereof) that the NCAA possesses.

Believe me, I've been through five years of denial on this one.  Money wins out.

The chips will fall as soon as Texas and ND want them to fall.  Once they agree to moves to one of the big four conferences, everything else falls into place right away.

[hickory_cornhusker]

A little help coming for Pool B in basketball, volleyball, soccer and football.

Presentation College in South Dakota is leaving the UMAC to become an independent
http://www.pcsaints.com/news/2012/2/1/GEN_0201120436.aspx

[Pat Coleman]

Something in their statement confuses me. Following up with the UMAC office.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Something in their statement confuses me. Following up with the UMAC office.

Like how they seem to think they can field less sports and play less games?

[Ralph Turner]

A little help coming for Pool B in basketball, volleyball, soccer and football.

Presentation College in South Dakota is leaving the UMAC to become an independent
http://www.pcsaints.com/news/2012/2/1/GEN_0201120436.aspx

My thought is that the sport is having trouble getting enough students and student-athletes to compete in the various sports offered by the conference.  My next concern and hope is that the school is not having trouble getting students to keep the doors open.  This is a tough economy. I'll bet that the student body is from humble working middle class backgrounds.  (No slam against that.  That is my background.)

The move to football was to gain students.  Soccer doesn't bring in that many students.
The school will need to have 5 sports, 3 team sports and 3 seasons.  Soccer is extra if you have football/volleyball and M/W XC in the fall. M/W hoops in the winter and baseball/softball in the spring, plus M/W golf.

Yes, they can offer M/W soccer, but if they have to postpone or forfeit games, then they don't hurt their colleagues in the "conference".

When their situation has stabliized, I am sure that the UMAC will accept them again as a full member.

[Ralph Turner]

Cited in "What We Are Reading" on the front page of D3baseball.com


http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/04/18/1163624

The conference's two largest schools, Christopher Newport and Shenandoah, are moving to the Capital Athletic Conference and Old Dominion Athletic Conference, respectively. CNU, the only state-supported institution in the league, will remain a football-only member of the USA South for up to three seasons while the Capital adds the sport.

They will be replaced by three colleges from the Great South Conference: LaGrange and Piedmont in Georgia, and Maryville in eastern Tennessee. Peace College in Raleigh, a league member in women's athletics, has gone coed as William Peace University and will phase in men's sports over the next three years. Wiggs said she expects the USA South presidents to approve in May the addition of two other Great South schools, Huntingdon College in Montgomery, Ala., and Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Ga.

Great News for the GSAC Men's programs...

What that does for the co-ed schools in the GSAC is another matter.

[Ralph Turner]

Catching  up on what has happened in the D-III

Link

Exploratory schools

While this meeting was not one in which the Membership Committee evaluated potential new members' progress toward active status (that will occur in June), it did accept requests from the following four institutions to conduct an exploratory year beginning on Sept. 1, 2012:

    Alfred State College (Alfred, N.Y.)
    Berea College (Berea, Ky.)
    Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago, Ill.)
    Iowa Wesleyan College (Mt. Pleasant, Iowa)

Five other schools are conducting an exploratory year in 2011-12. They are:

    State University of New York at Canton (Canton, N.Y.)
    Houghton College (Houghton, N.Y.)
    Sarah Lawrence College (Bronxville, N.Y.)
    Southern Virginia University (Buena Vista, Va.)
    Valley Forge Christian College (Phoenixville, Pa.)