Future of Division III

WLU78 · June 16, 2006, 11:02:12 AM

There is discussion on other boards as to whether Coach Joey Jones ever obtained an undergraduate diploma of any kind. Obviously it has not hindered his career.

Ralph Turner · June 16, 2006, 11:32:18 AM

Quote from: WLU78 on June 16, 2006, 11:02:12 AM
There is discussion on other boards as to whether Coach Joey Jones ever obtained an undergraduate diploma of any kind. Obviously it has not hindered his career.

The problem with this post is that a search of D3sports message boards has no other references to Joey Jones.

Can you elaborate on which boards those comments are being made about Coach Joey Jones?

WLU78 · June 20, 2006, 07:37:09 PM

The Samford Bulldog board mentions it. They are both private colleges in Birmingham and I think they played each other in some sports.

Here is the link to the thread http://www.samfordbulldogs.com/viewtopic.php?t=3655

Ralph Turner · June 20, 2006, 08:25:41 PM

Quote from: WLU78 on June 20, 2006, 07:37:09 PM
The Samford Bulldog board mentions it. They are both private colleges in Birmingham and I think they played each other in some sports.

Here is the link to the thread http://www.samfordbulldogs.com/viewtopic.php?t=3655

The Samford University board does not say that he failed to get his Baccalaureate degree.

In Texas, many successful high school head football coaches have earned their Masters on the way to their Administrative Job after football.

Samford is a D1AA school. One wonders how long it wants to be the only private school in the Ohio Valley Conference. You almost get the impression that they think that BSC pulled off the coup of the year.

johnnie_esq · June 21, 2006, 09:32:27 AM

Update to my last post about D-2 developments based upon a new SC Times article:

It appears that University of North Dakota is headed D-1.

There are discussions in their former conference (the NCC) about a merger with the NSIC, who may also be losing a member-- University of Minnesota Crookston.

UMC is formerly a 2-year school that is re-evaluating its athletic classification. Given that it is approximately the same size as UM-Morris, it is possible that UMC will be looking to enter D-3, as there will likely be administrative pressure to remain consistent with Morris and the other UMN programs in the NCAA ranks. The DAC (NAIA) has apparently approached UMC about rejoining its conference, but given that Crookston is already in the NCAA ranks, and schools are leaving the DAC for the NCAA already, look for that to be an issue in those discussion.

Will the entire DAC leave NAIA for the NCAA? That has been the topic of discussions in those circles already. And if so, do they go D-3 or D-2? Smallish schools would lean toward D-3, but some of them give scholarships so perhaps D-2.

Developing...

Ralph Turner · June 21, 2006, 09:50:24 AM

Quote from: johnnie_esq on June 21, 2006, 09:32:27 AM
Update to my last post about D-2 developments based upon a new SC Times article:

It appears that University of North Dakota is headed D-1.

There are discussions in their former conference (the NCC) about a merger with the NSIC, who may also be losing a member-- University of Minnesota Crookston.

UMC is formerly a 2-year school that is re-evaluating its athletic classification. Given that it is approximately the same size as UM-Morris, it is possible that UMC will be looking to enter D-3, as there will likely be administrative pressure to remain consistent with Morris and the other UMN programs in the NCAA ranks. The DAC (NAIA) has apparently approached UMC about rejoining its conference, but given that Crookston is already in the NCAA ranks, and schools are leaving the DAC for the NCAA already, look for that to be an issue in those discussion.

Will the entire DAC leave NAIA for the NCAA? That has been the topic of discussions in those circles already. And if so, do they go D-3 or D-2? Smallish schools would lean toward D-3, but some of them give scholarships so perhaps D-2.

Developing...

Thanks Johnnie.

Have you heard any timelines on those issues, especially UM-Crookston? DAC?

At least the UMAC is shaping up for UM-Crookston to evaluate.

johnnie_esq · June 21, 2006, 11:10:24 AM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 21, 2006, 09:50:24 AM

Thanks Johnnie.

Have you heard any timelines on those issues, especially UM-Crookston? DAC?

At least the UMAC is shaping up for UM-Crookston to evaluate.

No timelines yet, but my guess is that by the end of summer this whole issue will be forced into a resolve. I have to believe the DAC is very interested in D-3, but only if D3 will let them enter as a group NWC-style, which I'm not sure will be allowed, given the NCAA's current approach of a lottery plus 3 gaining full membership per year. I don't think the DAC will want the scholarship costs of D-2, or being forced to play the bigger NCC schools-- though a formerly domininant member (U of Mary, Bismark, ND) just joined the NSIC.

The article also notes that St. Cloud State and U of South Dakota are entertaining a D-1 move too.

Ralph Turner · June 21, 2006, 11:17:43 AM

Johnnie, what is the quality of the DAC schools? USNews Rankings? Who would you consider to be D3 "peers" of the DAC schools? Probably not the NESCAC,

, but what about other conferences? IIAC? NWC? NAthCon? CCIW? MIAC?

You are allowed some provinciality!

Pat Coleman · June 21, 2006, 09:22:34 PM

UMAC?

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · June 22, 2006, 08:56:38 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 21, 2006, 09:22:34 PM
UMAC?

That's worth some karma.

Ralph Turner · July 03, 2006, 07:41:53 PM

Johnnie Esq called our attention to these finanacial aid numbers earlier in the year. A large number of schools give student-athletes far less aid than the average student. This unique form for discrimination is not addressed by the most recent news report from the NCAA. I would love to read a discussion or an interview by Pat Coleman or a NCAA Student-Athlete Advisory Committee (SAAC) member of senior NCAA D3 administrators about this discrepancy inthe awarding of financial aid. Are some student-athletes not getting the help that they are eligible to receive?

NCAA financial aid compliance, July 2006

Knightstalker · July 10, 2006, 09:19:15 AM

This is from todays NY Times, you need to register to read the story. It is several pages long so I did not copy and paste. It is regarding schools that are adding football to attract male students.

Adding Football

Warren Thompson · July 10, 2006, 10:21:15 AM

'stalker:

One of the best quotes in this article, to paraphrase: We get the football players to come, and then we "trick" them into getting an education.

johnnie_esq · July 10, 2006, 10:42:24 AM

The article is interesting in terms of what social challenges these colleges face when adding football, but it doesn't seem to touch on the base level of why getting men into their colleges is so important: nationally, the rate of males attending colleges is decreasing and it is expected that their numbers will drop too. So a further decrease in the already low number of males could be devastating to some of these schools.

That's why schools such as St. Mary's of Minnesota, whose last football team lost to Gagliardi in his first year at SJU (1953) are adding football, as not increasing their male enrollment could mean a real struggle for survival.

Pat Coleman · July 10, 2006, 01:58:44 PM

Quote from: knightstalker on July 10, 2006, 09:19:15 AM
This is from todays NY Times, you need to register to read the story. It is several pages long so I did not copy and paste. It is regarding schools that are adding football to attract male students.

Plus that would be a violation of the NYT's copyright. You've been here long enough to know that but I'll blame the painkillers.