Future of Division III

[Nonbiased Observer]

My feeling about the NCAC is that it will stick together annd head as a group to the Division that fits the conference philosophy best.

Other than that, my information is gut feeling only.

[Wydown Blvd.]

How do the problems of d3 go beyond football, or do they? If you guys already answered this, then refer me to the answer. Through all of this, I can only see the problems via this football lens for different schools (public v. private, rich v. poor, athletic v. academic, male-dominated population v. female-student body population, etc etc). In essence, do the problems infiltrate other sports to the point that it is beyond a football problem? Why not just change the rules/regulations of football?

(in the meantime, i am going to re-read this board from beginning to end to make sure I didnt miss this anwer)

[Ralph Turner]

Wydown,

The Midwest Conference voluntarily cuts it season short by 10% i.e., play only 22-regular season basketball games.

The SCIAC does not permit off-campus visits. (help  me here on this one...)

I think that this is a more visceral problem.  The "D-IV's" don't like a lot of the teams that are no longer "others" but are now "D-III's" just like them.

The small college arm of the NCAA moved to D-III in 1973 when the NAIA was vibrant.  Look at the schools who competed in the NAIA in the 1960's and 1970's and many of them are now in D-1, D-2 and D3!

For the old guard, D-III has lost its distinction.

The NESCAC stomps most of the D-III competition across the board, but many of the other D-III's are having trouble with access to the championships, (read that, Final Fours).  However, if you look at the Director's Cup standings, most of the Top 50 are D-IV's!

[Wydown Blvd.]

For teams that are not able to compete on the national stage, isn't that the glory of the conference championships and all the regional prominence that the NCAA keeps promoting.

I agree with what K-Mack said before:

I think the competitiveness varies from region to region and state to state. Any additional division that breaks up closely-knit conferences, or threatens to, is going to have a tough time passing.

A couple of you hit it on the head earlier. D3 is built on the conference structure. National playoffs are just gravy, and in all honesty, are not a reality for a lot of students who devote a lot of time to being good at sports in D3.

Another thing ... a small school staying competitive in football (roster of 60-100 generally), baseball (roster of what, 25?), basketball (roster of 12-15) and, let's say tennis (roster of what, 6-12?) are different things.

When you are talking about moving your entire athletic program to a new subdivision, do you weigh equally how this affects all sports? We're talking about very different requirements ... and perhaps institutions who value their athletic program in different ways (valuable part of student life, tradition, money-maker, recruiting tool, prestige-measurer, etc.)

Important points being:
Region to region
Closely knit conferences
"National playoffs are just gravy"
Entire athletic programs being moved

I don't see how the best interest of the overall student body can be based on such a football related change. Although I don't know the average number of athletes per school, even if 50% are football players, what about the best interest of the other 50%.

It really does seem like its more of a football problem than a d3 problem at this point.

It is a football problem, but it is an all-division football problem, much of which relates to D2's football members, who have higher costs than D3 (scholarships) and comparable revenue (larger student bodies than D3 (tongue-in-cheek pun intended), less alumni support generally)....

..... if the NCAA is smart they will look all-division to fix the football issue and stop the piecemeal division only approach. 

[Wydown Blvd.]

Wasn't part of D-4 also to eliminate championships and playoffs and just play the season?

Interesting post from early on this board.

For the old guard, D-III has lost its distinction.

The NESCAC stomps most of the D-III competition across the board, but many of the other D-III's are having trouble with access to the championships, (read that, Final Fours).  However, if you look at the Director's Cup standings, most of the Top 50 are D-IV's!

And the beauty of D3 in sports other than football is that the national stage gives (in basketball) the NESCAC the opportunity to go up against the UAA's best, or (swimming) Kenyon to compete against Emory, or UC-Santa Cruz to sweep competition in tennis on the national stage. Access to the national stage isnt even necessary for d3, but its a great perk.

While some schools can promote conference achievements (boards hung in gyms for conference championships). Other schools (Williams etc) loss track of the number of conference championships they win and look forward to the national stage.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Sorry about this being the third post in a row, but I'm almost finished...

ok. screw the welfare of students thought. no matter where you go in NCAA sports, football from d1-d3 is always about money and investments. For some schools, D3 football as it is, is not the best investment and they are not getting the maximum athetic experience for football players. That, I think, is solely the reason for this change.

That article "Dollars & directions: D-III and D-I schools travel different paths" by Marcus Fitzsimmons of The Daily Times Staff was excellent and helped me piece things together. Its always great to see reporters proficiently cover a d3 subject.

Im finished on catching up on my reading about this issue and is my last post for a little bit.

[cush]

As for the Berea College to the scac if an opening happens, it was just a guess after reading they were interested in going d3 but they do have a billion bucks in endowment funds so travel isn't a problem. Before placing anybody in the scac though, alot would depend on who left, which might not happen, in determining who would get invited.

[David Collinge]

I'm excited about the prospect of adding Berea College to the D3/D4 rolls.  This is a very honorable school with an exceptional mission, and would be an outstanding addition to any conference.  I believe they have long-standing rivalries with both Transylvania (HCAC) and Centre (SCAC) and might fit with one of these conferences.  However, they might be reluctant to take on the additional travel expense that either of these conferences might require over and above what they incur in the NAIA and KIAC.  Yes, Berea has an enormous endowment, but they have a specific use for it (tuition waivers; no tuition is charged at Berea).  If more travel meant any additional costs to the students (either directly or via fees), that'd probably be a show-stopper too, since Berea's students are of modest means. 

[Ralph Turner]

For teams that are not able to compete on the national stage, isn't that the glory of the conference championships and all the regional prominence that the NCAA keeps promoting.

Quote from: smedindy on January 11, 2006, 01:25:13 pm
Wasn't part of D-4 also to eliminate championships and playoffs and just play the season?

Thanks for bringing forward that point again.

For all of the lip service that that receives, does D4 want to eliminate national championships and the only way to do that is to legislate them away?

[K-Mack]

Not sure if this has been reposted here, so don't jump down my throat if it has already (just don't have time to read every post, believe it or not)

From the ODAC board, and on-topic:

I think this article from the Chattanooga Newspaper posted at the Sewanee website about sums up what is going on in regards to the part I bolded:

Newspaper
From the Chattanooga Times Free Press
Sunday June 10, 2007

Division III dissension

By Darren Epps
Staff Writer

SEWANEE, Tenn. -- Demanding academic standards and an expansive selection of sports programs make the University of the South an ideal NCAA Division III institution, a model of genuine amateur athletics.

But the model is becoming blurred by universities with different interpretations of the Division III mission statement, and the school also known as Sewanee is watching membership and dissension swell.

The fractured membership could result in Sewanee and other traditional schools competing in a new division starting in 2009, possibly under the designation of Division IV or even Division V. Numerous presidents, athletic directors and administrators interviewed said a plan to split Division III, which does not allow athletic scholarships, is imminent when the group meets at January's convention in Nashville.

It's a case of multiplication forcing more dividing.

"It may go to two subdivisions or a fourth division, or potentially even both," NCAA president Myles Brand said. "I think what's happened is that Division III has gotten too big, and there's some philosophical differences within the division that we might do better at treating them separately."

The crux of Division III's civil war is indeed the rising number of universities, now at 450 counting the provisional schools. The influx of schools means a sweeping range of standards concerning admissions, financial aid and the vigor in which Division III programs are pursuing national championships.

Traditional schools like Sewanee want to align with academic peers. Other programs will pursue the athletic spotlight. And even more schools are resistant to change, unwilling to relinquish 80-year-old rivalries or accept a perceived demotion to a potential Division IV.

[deleted remainder to preserve newspaper's copyright]

Link to the article:
http://www.timesfreepress.com/absolutenm/templates/sports.aspx?articleid=16579&zoneid=6

Chattanooga Times Free Press
http://www.timesfreepress.com/

[K-Mack]

Nice finds, those pretty much explain the situation. There does seem to be a civil war going on in d3 which is somewhat confusing since the elite school's have already separated from the non-elites with conference affiliations in d3, don't see the need  to break those conferences out of d3. It could be a real mess with who goes where if a d4 happens.

I pretty much agree with this.

I'm kind of saddened by the whole thing, really. I kind of liked the diversity of institutions in D3 being able to stick to similiar missions and remain competitive with each other, for the most part.

[K-Mack]

Chattanooga Times Free Press article about Sewanee.

The reference to the "...demotion to D-IV" is interesting. 

Thanks to WLU78 on the ODAC board for the citiation.

I see this has been touched upon.

Wasn't sure anyone out there actually read this board and the ODAC board, besides Pat.

[Wydown Blvd.]

I see this has been touched upon.

Wasn't sure anyone out there actually read this board and the ODAC board, besides Pat.

Great something else to do while I'm bored on the job -- skim through the last 300 pages of ODAC football posts! lol

[smedindy]

I'm sure the muckety mucks at some places wouldn't think of it as a demotion, though.

[David Collinge]

Looks like the presidents are not going to stop with just athletics:

Some Colleges to Drop Out of U.S. News Rankings
(New York Times, 6/20/2007; registration may be required)

Secession Fever...Catch It!