Future of Division III

[Mr. Ypsi]

It would be interesting to see if home/away advantage varies significantly by sport.  I could imagine it might be fairly large in 'big'-crowd sports like football and basketball (in most areas, meaning men's bb), but (unless the 'rigors' of travel itself is a bigger factor) would seem somewhat trivial in things like swimming, tennis, or volleyball (where a pool or a court seems relatively neutral).  One 'minor' sport where I could imagine it might be huge is golf - knowing the course so well would seem a huge advantage.

Anyone know of a source for home/away winning records (without having to calculate a ton of data!) by sport?

My hunch would be that, if they re-introduce a difference by home/away, it oughta be of pretty trivial impact.

[Ralph Turner]

It would be interesting to see if home/away advantage varies significantly by sport.  I could imagine it might be fairly large in 'big'-crowd sports like football and basketball (in most areas, meaning men's bb), but (unless the 'rigors' of travel itself is a bigger factor) would seem somewhat trivial in things like swimming, tennis, or volleyball (where a pool or a court seems relatively neutral).  One 'minor' sport where I could imagine it might be huge is golf - knowing the course so well would seem a huge advantage.

Anyone know of a source for home/away winning records (without having to calculate a ton of data!) by sport?

My hunch would be that, if they re-introduce a difference by home/away, it oughta be of pretty trivial impact.

Non conference basketball games in the Shirk Center can be tough!

[Mr. Ypsi]

It would be interesting to see if home/away advantage varies significantly by sport.  I could imagine it might be fairly large in 'big'-crowd sports like football and basketball (in most areas, meaning men's bb), but (unless the 'rigors' of travel itself is a bigger factor) would seem somewhat trivial in things like swimming, tennis, or volleyball (where a pool or a court seems relatively neutral).  One 'minor' sport where I could imagine it might be huge is golf - knowing the course so well would seem a huge advantage.

Anyone know of a source for home/away winning records (without having to calculate a ton of data!) by sport?

My hunch would be that, if they re-introduce a difference by home/away, it oughta be of pretty trivial impact.

Non conference basketball games in the Shirk Center can be tough!

I sure hope so!

IF crowd noise really affects players, we have an additional weapon - it is not altogether rare for Titan fans to out-number home fans at away games!   [Though everyone jokes about the 'blue-hairs' among the Titan travelers, so not sure how loud they are!]

Any ideas on actual stats about home/away records?  (It would also vary by area, of course.  While wrestling mats hardly vary, I'd imagine there might be a home advantage in Iowa; Texas (and Iowa?) might be the only places where home court is an advantage in women's bball due to crowd noise.

Other than crowd support and/or travel itself, can you think of any sport where familiarity itself would be a big factor?  Golf, of course; cross-country?  Anything else?

[smedindy]

The edge in home games mean more than just the large crowds at certain sports. It's knowing the environment, the lighting, the sounds, the field (court, gym, etc.) and also not having to travel.

Even though a pool may be technically the same, everything else surrounding the pool is different, so that could affect times.

And I've seen some intimidating volleyball crowds at high school matches, so there's something to that.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Agreed on all points.

I'm wondering if there is some quantification out there?

Golf would clearly have a home advantage.  Perhaps cross country.  Some gyms certainly would give an advantage for basketball (the background of the basket, the lighting) - don't know if that would carry over to other sports.

I wonder if there is any research trying to separate travel (etc.) per se, from crowd support, from facilities themselves?  I (perhaps alone? ) find it a fascinating question, but I just don't know if there is data to answer it.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Could be done... Regressions between wins/winning percentages, miles between sites, attendance, home/away... Could be done for each sport/conference, but there's no way Im doing it lol...

[Ralph Turner]

Could be done... Regressions between wins/winning percentages, miles between sites, attendance, home/away... Could be done for each sport/conference, but there's no way Im doing it lol...

But Patrick Abegg probably could have...

Do we honestly know how much he will be missed this season?      

[John Gleich]

http://www.covenant.edu/news/07.27.09

http://www.berry.edu/pr/news/pressdetail.asp?ID=775

Covenant, Berry GA and PSU-Abingdon are the three provisionals for this fall.

They can be full members in 2013.

I wonder how much President Niel Nielson had to do with this...  He's a Wheaton grad and dad of former Wheaton Bball player Jon Nielson.

[John Gleich]

I understand the defensiveness that many of us feel after seeing that Centenary video. We're D3's true believers, and we know better than to think that D3 is some sort of glorified intramurals that represents a dead end filled with semi-athletic wannabes. But I don't think that we should be so harsh as to call Centenary's disillusioned current athletes "lunkheads", or anything like that.

Put yourself in their shoes. They earned athletic scholarships, and for the vast majority of high school athletes in America an athletic scholarship is the Holy Grail. Their attitude towards D1 athletics is no different than that of probably 95-98% of all fans of college sports in this country. D1 is the apex, the ideal, and it consumes so much media, marketing, and advertising focus that every other level of college sports is something less than an afterthought. Thus, when that Centenary athlete speaks of the school's possible move to D3 as "folding the tent", he's not only expressing his own disappointment with losing his scholarship and his hard-earned status, he's also reflecting mainstream thought.

The corollary to that is that D3 is as close to an unknown commodity as it's possible to have in our sports-saturated society, with the exception of esoteric sports such as women's tackle football or dogsledding. It's thus prey to all sorts of misconceptions that arise from ignorance, such as the erroneous belief that D3 athletes are marginal or failed high-school athletes. Ignorance is not something that should be applauded, but it is a fact of life, and at one point or another we've all spoken out about things we don't truly understand. That doesn't make us lunkheads. It makes us human.

The cure for ignorance isn't insults. It's education. We need to get out there and inform people about what D3 really is, and about what the competitive level of our various sports is really like, rather than simply draw the wagons in a circle and react with hostility when the 98% of American athletes and sports fans who don't have a clue about D3 denigrate it.

I know it was from a long time ago, but I'm just catching up with this thread...

It was a pleasure to read Mr. Sager!  +K!

[Ralph Turner]

Winston-Salem State seeks return to Division II

Pull quote...

...
As for Winston-Salem State's decision to seek a return to Division II, Chancellor Donald Reaves cited resources as the reason.

"In the final analysis, the resources to complete the reclassification simply were not available, currently nor prospectively, in sufficient amounts," Reaves said in the Journal story. "If there were any reasonable way to complete this transition without diverting resources from competing academic priorities, I would have recommended that we stay the course."
...

The big winner in this might be the CIAA.

...
Reaves said the school is seeking a conference affiliation before 2010-11, possibly with its previous conference, the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association.

...

Real numbers on the cost to WSSU for moving to D-1 status...

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/sep/11/wssu-trustees-vote-stop-move-division-i/


Reaction by the MEAC as it loses WSSU as North Carolina Central was joining...

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/sep/16/wssu-decision-surprises-meac/sports/

You will see John Dell's collection of articles on the WSSU decision.  These, and the comments section on the articles, will give you a better perspective of the situation.

Addendum:  The CIAA is the conference that Chowan NC and Lincoln PA have joined in their reclassification to D-II.

Follow-up on the story...

CIAA to reinstate Winston-Salem State

Pull quotes...

... once the school completes its reclassification to Division II.

Winston-Salem State, formerly a member of the CIAA until the school began a reclassification to Division I in 2004, announced it was seeking reinstatement within Division II last month. Winston-Salem State will continue to compete in the Division I Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference through 2009-10.

...

Winston-Salem State plans to compete at the Division II level effective with the 2010-11 season. The school currently sponsors 15 sports.

[Ralph Turner]

Road to D-1

Gonna take you 13 years?  And you can get there only thru D-II?

Click here.

[cush]

Click here


i would think the NAIA is gonna see more loses in the next few years to d3.



Edited for formatting...Thanks for the link.  Ralph Turner 

Of note, there were no schools applying for the D-III exploratory year for 2009-10.

[Gregory Sager]

The IIAC would be a nice fit for Iowa Wesleyan. IWC plays fourteen of the twenty-one sports sponsored by the IIAC (it does not offer men's or women's swimming, men's or women's indoor track & field, men's or women's tennis, or wrestling), and I know that it's especially important that a prospective IIAC member have a football team. IWC might be forced to add the two indoor track & field teams, the two tennis teams, and the wrestling team, since each of the nine current IIAC members participates in those sports and thus they might be mandatory. But only four of the current IIAC members have swim teams (for either gender), so its not likely that swimming would be a sticking point for IWC to join the league.

Demographically, academically, and fiscally the school has a profile similar to the current IIAC members. Being located in the southeast corner of the state, it's a little off the beaten path for most IIAC schools, but it's certainly much less of a geographic outlier than Buena Vista. And, most importantly, the inclusion of Iowa Wesleyan would make an even ten members in the IIAC, restoring the status quo in place before Upper Iowa switched to D2 back in 2003.

Iowa Wesleyan College was a charter member of the IIAC when it was formed in 1922. It dropped out of the league in 1965. Two schools have dropped out of the IIAC and were later reinstated, Loras and William Penn (the latter left and returned on two separate occasions), so the precedent exists.

If the IIAC didn't want Iowa Wesleyan, I suppose that the SLIAC would be the next best alternative.

[hickory_cornhusker]

The IIAC would be a nice fit for Iowa Wesleyan. IWC plays fourteen of the twenty-one sports sponsored by the IIAC (it does not offer men's or women's swimming, men's or women's indoor track & field, men's or women's tennis, or wrestling), and I know that it's especially important that a prospective IIAC member have a football team. IWC might be forced to add the two indoor track & field teams, the two tennis teams, and the wrestling team, since each of the nine current IIAC members participates in those sports and thus they might be mandatory. But only four of the current IIAC members have swim teams (for either gender), so its not likely that swimming would be a sticking point for IWC to join the league.

Demographically, academically, and fiscally the school has a profile similar to the current IIAC members. Being located in the southeast corner of the state, it's a little off the beaten path for most IIAC schools, but it's certainly much less of a geographic outlier than Buena Vista. And, most importantly, the inclusion of Iowa Wesleyan would make an even ten members in the IIAC, restoring the status quo in place before Upper Iowa switched to D2 back in 2003.

Iowa Wesleyan College was a charter member of the IIAC when it was formed in 1922. It dropped out of the league in 1965. Two schools have dropped out of the IIAC and were later reinstated, Loras and William Penn (the latter left and returned on two separate occasions), so the precedent exists.

If the IIAC didn't want Iowa Wesleyan, I suppose that the SLIAC would be the next best alternative.

Geographically the SLIAC isn't terrible for Iowa Wesleyan, especially considering the conference just added Spalding all the way out in Louisville. The biggest hurdle I see Iowa Wesleyan having to joining the IIAC is the lack of wrestling. It has been speculated that the lack of that sport has been what has kept Grinnell from joining the IIAC.

[Gregory Sager]

The IIAC would be a nice fit for Iowa Wesleyan. IWC plays fourteen of the twenty-one sports sponsored by the IIAC (it does not offer men's or women's swimming, men's or women's indoor track & field, men's or women's tennis, or wrestling), and I know that it's especially important that a prospective IIAC member have a football team. IWC might be forced to add the two indoor track & field teams, the two tennis teams, and the wrestling team, since each of the nine current IIAC members participates in those sports and thus they might be mandatory. But only four of the current IIAC members have swim teams (for either gender), so its not likely that swimming would be a sticking point for IWC to join the league.

Demographically, academically, and fiscally the school has a profile similar to the current IIAC members. Being located in the southeast corner of the state, it's a little off the beaten path for most IIAC schools, but it's certainly much less of a geographic outlier than Buena Vista. And, most importantly, the inclusion of Iowa Wesleyan would make an even ten members in the IIAC, restoring the status quo in place before Upper Iowa switched to D2 back in 2003.

Iowa Wesleyan College was a charter member of the IIAC when it was formed in 1922. It dropped out of the league in 1965. Two schools have dropped out of the IIAC and were later reinstated, Loras and William Penn (the latter left and returned on two separate occasions), so the precedent exists.

If the IIAC didn't want Iowa Wesleyan, I suppose that the SLIAC would be the next best alternative.

Geographically the SLIAC isn't terrible for Iowa Wesleyan, especially considering the conference just added Spalding all the way out in Louisville. The biggest hurdle I see Iowa Wesleyan having to joining the IIAC is the lack of wrestling. It has been speculated that the lack of that sport has been what has kept Grinnell from joining the IIAC.

Wrestling is not a difficult sport to add in terms of logistics, especially in a wrestling-rich environment such as Iowa where a coach wouldn't have to travel far and wide to find high school prospects. A wrestling team would only require adding one paid position to an athletic staff; it doesn't require any stand-alone facilities apart from a gym, which every school that already offers basketball and volleyball (including Iowa Wesleyan) already has; and it doesn't require a large equipment budget, inasmuch as there isn't a lot of equipment unique to the sport and wrestling teams tend to be numerically small in terms of participants. The biggest costs would be the coach's salary and travel expenses.

The likely main obstacle to Iowa Wesleyan adding wrestling is the same reason why the sport is in such deep decline as a college sport: Title IX. It would presumably be a more acute problem due to the fact that Iowa Wesleyan already fields the sport that makes Title IX arithmetic so difficult, football. The athletic department would have to do number-crunching and adjusting that goes beyond the bounds of the wrestling team itself in order to make it work.