Future of Division III

[smedindy]

Well, Antioch pretty much dropped itself! Though the GLCA is helping negotiate the transition to a 'new' Antioch College.

The GLCA probably will never form an athletic conference, mainly because the athletic rivalries with Wittenberg for Wabash, Wooster and others are too good to just drop.

[smedindy]

Northeastern drops football!

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/ncf/news/story?id=4681701

I am wondering about the fate of the FCS (I-AA). Yes, they have a decent sized division, but except for an elite few they're money pits (except when they get a big guarantee check for losing 59-3 to a big time program). It seems the Pioneer League is excelling, though.

Perhaps instead of dropping football, Northeastern should have investigated moving to the Pioneer or Patriot League for football. The non-scholarship football model works well. Many D-3 programs actually have many things in common with the smaller FCS schools (well, except for the D-1 hoops programs).

[smedindy]

Sorry to ramble about this, but here's a list of recent FCS programs that could have fit into a D-3 type model, perhaps.

Boston University
Canisius
Evansville
Fairfield
Iona
LaSalle
Northeastern
St. Johns (NY)
St. Mary's (CA)
St. Peter's
Siena

Add those teams to the existing Ivy, Patriot and Pioneer, and then you may have a good division there. I wonder if the Northeast Conference's move to scholarships will be helpful or harmful for them.

What does this have to do with D-3? Well, in my mind it could solidify the thoughts of some that smaller division or non-scholarship football isn't viable, and isn't worth it. Which means that D-3 gets 'blown off' by the media at large, despite Pat's good work.

[PA_wesleyfan]

smedindy

Lasalle played almost an exclusive DIII schedule when they had football. But I think those schools who have a certain number of  DI sports have to by NCAA mandate play at the FCS level in football. I remember Georgetown going threw the process and playing DIII for 2 yrs and moving up to DII for one year before having to play  at the FCS level

[Knightstalker]

St. Peters did the same thing in the early 90's.  I was friends with the O-line coach and he told me of the process and the difficulties.  St. Peters tried to get grandfathered into D3 for Football but got shot down, now they have no program.

Did not notice I typed problem instead of program yesterday.

[smedindy]

Oh, yes, I know they have to play D-1 (the Dayton rule)...

That's why I said "model" and not D-3. Sort of a D-1AAA or D-1NS. NOT D-4...

[Ralph Turner]

It's official.  Covenant joins the GSAC in 2010-11.

[smedindy]

And now Hofstra drops football...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4709412

If low attendance and student interest were the reasons to drop football, half the NCAC would be gone.

[Gray Fox]

And now Hofstra drops football...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4709412

If low attendance and student interest were the reasons to drop football, half the NCAC would be gone.

Don't give them any ideas.

[HSCTiger74]

And now Hofstra drops football...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4709412

If low attendance and student interest were the reasons to drop football, half the NCAC would be gone.

Maybe, but I don't think that anyone in the NCAC is spending the $4.5 million per season that Hofstra reportedly was. It isn't a bottom line issue for those schools.

[Knightstalker]

And now Hofstra drops football...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4709412

If low attendance and student interest were the reasons to drop football, half the NCAC would be gone.

Maybe, but I don't think that anyone in the NCAC is spending the $4.5 million per season that Hofstra reportedly was. It isn't a bottom line issue for those schools.

Funny how a couple of years after the Jets moved their training camp from Hofstra to FDU Florham Park, Hofstra can't afford football anymore.

[doolittledog]

Northeastern drops football!

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/ncf/news/story?id=4681701

I am wondering about the fate of the FCS (I-AA). Yes, they have a decent sized division, but except for an elite few they're money pits (except when they get a big guarantee check for losing 59-3 to a big time program). It seems the Pioneer League is excelling, though.

Perhaps instead of dropping football, Northeastern should have investigated moving to the Pioneer or Patriot League for football. The non-scholarship football model works well. Many D-3 programs actually have many things in common with the smaller FCS schools (well, except for the D-1 hoops programs).

I can't find the link now.  With state wide budget cuts going on in Iowa, the Board of Regents is studying whether UNI should continue as D1-AA with scholarships or follow the Pioneer League non-scholarship model or possibly drop to D2.  It was noted that the UNI football program lost $500,000 last year.  Drake is a school that went non-scholarship for football and it was noted Drake lost $600,000 last year.  If some eastern schools decided to go non-scholarship and they were in a conference that was close geographically and you could bus your teams to games it might work out.  If you are in a conference where you are flying your team around, you will lose money. 

In some cases it might be more cost effective to stay D1 and go the non-scholarship route.  In other cases it might be best to drop football.  If you are a small school with no football interest and will likely never make money and want to stay D1 for your other sports.  Overall, I don't see too many schools dropping football at the D1-AA level.  This goes in cycles, there were a number of schools that dropped football in the early 1980's.  Now we are seeing a few more. 

[Ralph Turner]

Report in the Winchester VA Star  (subscription required)

Shenandoah has decided not to seek Football affiliation in the ODAC.

The ODAC would not accept them as a full member.

SU could not find a satisfactory home in another conference.  (CSAC?  Capital AC?,  MAC? just conjecture, but those are the ones that are close.)

So, they will stay in the USA South.

This probably leaves the GSAC hanging on its own.

[MUCheats]

Sorry to ramble about this, but here's a list of recent FCS programs that could have fit into a D-3 type model, perhaps.

Boston University
Canisius
Evansville
Fairfield
Iona
LaSalle
Northeastern
St. Johns (NY)
St. Mary's (CA)
St. Peter's
Siena

Add those teams to the existing Ivy, Patriot and Pioneer, and then you may have a good division there. I wonder if the Northeast Conference's move to scholarships will be helpful or harmful for them.

What does this have to do with D-3? Well, in my mind it could solidify the thoughts of some that smaller division or non-scholarship football isn't viable, and isn't worth it. Which means that D-3 gets 'blown off' by the media at large, despite Pat's good work.

A lot of those schools listed above previously did sponsor Division I FCS non-scholarship programs before they dropped the sport.  I think if there was a Division I FCS non-scholarship playoff, more schools would consider going that route. 

Oh, and in regards to the Patriot League and Ivy League, while it's true that they don't offer scholarships for football, my understanding is that they use scholarship equivalents which means there is little difference between the level of play in those leagues and the level of play in other scholarship FCS leagues.

[smedindy]

From my readings in the paper today, UNO is pretty much guaranteed themselves a trip to D-3.

CarrollStreaks - Patriot League and Ivy League teams have the advantage of large endowments for scholarships and 'name' recognition. If you get a lot of financial aid and can say you went to Harvard or Lehigh, most everyone would jump at it.