Future of Division III

[Just Bill]

You do still get a "doubleheader discount" if you attend both games at Stevens Point.  If you bring your ticket from Game 1 to the door at Game 2 you pay a discounted admission.  At least that's what it used to be. I doubt it's changed.

[John Gleich]

Stevens Point has a very unique situation as well with Quandt being available for the men and Berg available for the women while the other game is going on... I know of no other university in the country with this situation, though they may have an auxiliary gym (not that any were every utilized for getting loose or anything like that for the participants of the second game while I was there).

SP has another unique feature of their setup... they charge admission separately for each game whereas all of the other schools playing in the same gym have one ticket for both games (not sure if the prices are raised for doubleheaders or if there's a buy-two-get-a-discount at Point).

Two top-of-my-head counterexamples, just for the sake of posting something.
1) It's just an auxiliary floor, but Denison has a full-sized basketball gym in the same building as Livingston Gym, and I have seen the Big Red men warming up there while the women were playing.
2) Wittenberg has charged admission for women, then cleared the gym and charged for the men (with an intervening, and free, JV men's game) on at least one occasion (worth noting that the opponent for both genders was Wooster, making it not really your run-of-the-mill Saturday for Wittenberg). 

Yeah, there are other WIAC schools with aux gyms too (Oshkosh comes to mind... and actually, maybe we DID warm up there one time, come to think of it) but for whatever reason, they weren't utilzed.

North Park did the same thing last year on a Saturday in which NPU hosted a women's game directly followed by a men's game. I would guess that UWSP actually has plenty of company when it comes to the two-games, two-admissions policy.

Did they clear the gym in between games?

I know they don't (or at least didn't when I still played/lived in Point) for other WIAC DH's).

I know that they typically do that for NCAA quads but I wonder how much extra revenue they get for the additional hastle it is to shuffle people out and back in.

The Crackerbox isn't a large venue (so I hear... I missed my chances last season and need to do it this year!) but some others it could be quite cramped quarters in the lobbies. 

[Gregory Sager]

North Park did the same thing last year on a Saturday in which NPU hosted a women's game directly followed by a men's game. I would guess that UWSP actually has plenty of company when it comes to the two-games, two-admissions policy.

Did they clear the gym in between games?

Yes.

I know they don't (or at least didn't when I still played/lived in Point) for other WIAC DH's).

I know that they typically do that for NCAA quads but I wonder how much extra revenue they get for the additional hastle it is to shuffle people out and back in.

It depends upon the school. Some schools charge separate admissions and clear out the gym between games, others don't. The NCAA leaves it up to the host. Like you, in most cases I'm not convinced that there's really a whole lot of extra income to be gained by all the bother.

The Crackerbox isn't a large venue (so I hear... I missed my chances last season and need to do it this year!) but some others it could be quite cramped quarters in the lobbies.

The women's home games at North Park are usually played at 2 pm on Saturdays with the men's games held much later at 7:30 pm, so it's typically not an issue. And it didn't seem to cause much of a problem on the occasion that NPU held the back-to-back games that involved clearing the gym in the interim. There's very limited overlap between the fans who turn out for the women's games and the fans who turn out for the men's games -- and the women's games don't tend to draw very well, anyway.

[Just Bill]

I know they don't (or at least didn't when I still played/lived in Point) for other WIAC DH's).

I know that they typically do that for NCAA quads but I wonder how much extra revenue they get for the additional hastle it is to shuffle people out and back in.

It depends upon the school. Some schools charge separate admissions and clear out the gym between games, others don't. The NCAA leaves it up to the host. Like you, in most cases I'm not convinced that there's really a whole lot of extra income to be gained by all the bother.

I always thought the clearing gyms technique was designed to get more home fans in the gym, not for income. If you play two games under one admission, then the home team only gets 50% of the seats because the fans of the three "other" teams are taking up spots. If you make two admissions, then there is only one "other" team so your fans can grab more tickets.

[Gregory Sager]

I always thought the clearing gyms technique was designed to get more home fans in the gym, not for income.

I think it's a both/and, not an either/or. More home fans = more fans, period.

[Ralph Turner]

Membership proposals

The NCAA News

Division III will consider six legislative proposals that have gained proper sponsorship from member conferences for the 2011 Convention.

The six membership-sponsored proposals, as they will appear in the Second Publication of Proposed Legislation, are (with originating conference and co-sponsors):

   * No. 1  Amateurism – Preferential Treatment – Exception – Designation of Fundraising Money. Intent: To specify that it would be permissible for an institution to allocate money earned via fundraising by a student-athlete specifically for that student-athlete up to the actual and necessary expenses for the specific item (for example, transportation, uniforms). Any unearned money would go to the institution, athletics department or team. Further, to establish a definition of earned and unearned money. Effective date: August 1, 2011. (Colonial States Athletic Conference, Little East Conference, Middle Atlantic Conferences, New Jersey Athletic Conference and Presidents' Athletic Conference)
   * No. 2  Eligibility – Outside Competition – Exceptions – Triathlon. Intent: To permit student-athletes to compete in triathlons without affecting their sport eligibility (in cross country, track and field, or swimming and diving) while still adhering to amateurism standards. Effective date: Immediate. (Empire 8, Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference and North Eastern Athletic Conference)
   * No. 3  Playing and Practice Seasons – Athletically Related Activities – Certified Strength and Conditioning Personnel Monitoring and Conducting Workouts. Intent: To permit certified strength and conditioning personnel to conduct voluntary workouts for all student-athletes. Effective date: August 1, 2011. (Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, Great Northeast Athletic Conference, Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, Little East Conference and Upper Midwest Athletic Conference)
   * No. 5  Postseason Events – Division III Championships – Men's Volleyball. Intent: To establish a NCAA Division III Men's Volleyball Championship. Effective date: August 1, 2011. (City University of New York Athletic Conference and Great Northeast Athletic Conference)
   * No. 6  Executive Regulations – Administration of NCAA Championships – Squad Limits – Bench Size Limits – Sports Other Than Football. Intent: To permit institutions in sports other than football to determine how many student-athletes from their current active rosters they desire to dress, participate in warm-ups and be in the bench area for an NCAA championship contest while still adhering to the maximum number of student-athletes eligible to compete in a particular championship as determined by that sports championship policy and while maintaining the current per diem policies in all sports. Effective date: Immediate. (Empire 8, Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference and Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
   * No. 7  Executive Regulations – Administration of NCAA Championships – Squad Limits – Bench Size Limits – All Sports. Intent: To permit institutions in all applicable sports to determine how many student-athletes from their current active rosters they desire to dress, participate in warm-ups and be in the bench area for an NCAA championship contest while still adhering to the maximum number of student-athletes eligible to compete in a particular contest as determined by that sports championship policy and maintaining the current per diem policies in all sports. Further, to establish a maximum of 100 student-athletes who may be in the bench area during football championship contests. Effective date: Immediate. (Empire 8 and Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association)

The Division III legislative process allows a conference or 10 institutions that submitted a Convention proposal by July 15 to continue to seek co-sponsorship from an additional conference or 10 more institutions (for an institution-based proposal, 20 institutions must agree to sponsor) until September 1.

Proposal Nos. 1 and 3 were submitted by the July 15 deadline with proper co-sponsorship. The other four proposals gained co-sponsorship after July 15.

The Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference submitted but subsequently withdrew a proposal to reduce the maximum contests or dates of competition in all Division III championship sports that have 11 or more contests or dates of competition.

[Piobark]

For proposal #3, I think this is a really good idea.

Given that athletes are going to be in the weight room, seems to me that having someone there who knows how to build a proper program and how to perform the specific elements (lifts) is in the best interests of the student's long term health.

The alternative is that student athletes are creating their own workouts, perhaps lifting improperly, and risking injury.

[hickory_cornhusker]

I like #6/#7. If you have been part of the team all year you should be able to suit up, warm up and be on the bench for the championship game. This fits in well with the Division III philosophy of giving many oppurtunities for student-athlete participation. This isn't putting undue pressure on the NCAA's budget. And it is up to the school to determine whether to bring the student-athletes along or not. The coaches will have to be careful on who is actually on the championship roster and who is not but it isn't overly difficult as long as you pay attention to what is going on.

[radiodavel]

THE SENIOR REPORTS - Houghton College Considers Application for NCAA D-III Membership
www.theseniorreports.com/naiadiv3.htm

look for one more NY school to announce a change

[Ralph Turner]

Houghton College in southwestern New York.

Press Release  (Italics added)

...

Application For NCAA D-III Membership
The addition of these two programs will assist Houghton College in meeting the standards of sports offerings for NCAA D-III membership – a move that is in the exploratory stages of consideration. The determining factors for Houghton deciding to apply for NCAA D-III membership include the college's ability to identify a conference that fits it academically, geographically and aligns with the college's athletic emphasis on the development of character and leadership. Alignment with a well-respected NCAA D-III conference within the college's geographic area would provide Houghton student-athletes with schedules that minimize travel and missed class time.

"The addition of baseball and softball at Houghton not only provide more alternatives for both athletes and spectators but also enhance the contribution of athletics to our overall educational environment," remarks Shirley A. Mullen, President of Houghton College. "Athletics contributes to Houghton's educational goals of developing the whole person, pursuing excellence, cultivating self discipline and team building, creating and sustaining community, and stewarding one's gifts and abilities to serve others." Mullen states that, "Adding these sports is part of our preparation to seriously explore a move from NAIA to NCAA D-III assuming we are able to find a conference in DIII that shares our commitment to an athletic program embedded within a larger educational philosophy of academic rigor and character development."

No football.  They offer Field Hockey.  Adding Baseball and Softball.


NEAC, AMCC or Empire 8

Which one will it be?

[radiodavel]

Houghton is a quality school, will make a good addition to any conference.  They are presently members of the NAIA's AMC conference which basically has imploded, many of the members were just accepted into D2 the past several years.  The AMC went from over 20 schools as members, to closing their doors probably next year... info on the AMC is at - www.theseniorreports.com/naiad2.htm

Don't be surprised if you see another announcement from another NY - AMC member as well about a change fore the future.  The AMC is having a conference meeting this next week and I'm sure some of this will come out during the meetings.

I look for more NAIA members to consider D3, because of the changes taking place in the D2 membership process.

[BUBeaverFan]

I continue to be amazed that the Mid Central College Conference members (NAIA primarily Indiana Colleges) maintain their NAIA affiliation as the dominoes continue to fall around them.  I think they could be a quality NCAA DIII conference.  Mount Vernon Nazarene has applied for membership in the Mid Central Conference because of the American Mideast Conference and larger NAIA implosion in Ohio.   Lourdes, Northwestern Ohio, Wilberforce, Cincinnati Christian, Rio Grande, Shawnee State and Mount Vernon will be the remaining NAIA Members in Ohio.  I assume Lourdes will go the Wolverine-Hoosier route (like Northwestern Ohio) leaving Wilberfore on an island unto themselves.  Maybe the Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference could entice Taylor University of the Mid Central as a 11 Member (10th Football) if Taylor would become interested in the DIII route.

[Gregory Sager]

Don't be surprised if you see another announcement from another NY - AMC member as well about a change fore the future.  The AMC is having a conference meeting this next week and I'm sure some of this will come out during the meetings.

Logically, the next domino to fall should be Roberts Wesleyan, Houghton's long-time rival and fellow member of the imploding AMC. As Houghton goes, Roberts Wesleyan goes. RWC, which is located in the Rochester suburbs, already has the requisite twelve varsity programs, and it has participated in what's now called the Wendy's College Classic since 1966-67 -- a fact that's significant because it's the only NAIA school in a tournament that has otherwise consisted entirely of D3 schools since D3 inaugurated men's basketball competition in 1975-75.

The AMC, with its preponderance of Ohio and Pennsylvania schools, has never seemed like a logical home for either Houghton or Roberts Wesleyan. Given that D3 schools are thick on the ground in upstate New York -- private as well as public -- and the fact that the size, mission, and profile of the two schools are very D3ish, it makes perfect sense for them to move over to D3. In fact, I wonder why they didn't do so years ago.

[roocru]

DIII committee offers alternate to bench proposal

Click here


Modified for formatting purposes... Thanks, roocru, for the post. +1!  Ralph

[Ralph Turner]

My question for the E8 fans is do they think that Roberts Wesleyan and Houghton have the same mission and vision as the E8 schools.